Cpnhelp.org

Post a maximum of three links per comment or the comment will be removed by the spam filter.Wikipedia info;  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_orotateTwo Part article by Dr. Jonathan V. Wright, MD http://tahomaclinicblog.com/lithium-the-misunderstood-mineral-part-1/http://tahomaclinicblog.com/lithium-the-misunderstood-mineral-part-2/

Links related to Lithium Orotate forum topic;Article By Jason E. Barker, ND and Vitamin Research Products;   http://www.vrp.com/stress/lithium-orotate-the-mood-enhancing-mineralhttp://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/Bryanrosner/lithium.htmhttp://www.ehow.com/about_6582987_lithium-aspartate-vs_-lithium-orotate.html

Links    http://tahomaclinicblog.com/    Interesting conversations with Dr. Wright.

Hi Christian, thanks for starting this topic in one of your blog pages.  I decided to separate out the topic.  After reading your Lithium Orotate blog and the responses to it by readers here, I did some more research.And as my local Health Food Store had the VRP brand in stock it was to easy, so I twelve days ago have started low dose Lithium Orotate and have been working up my dose to the generally accepted low dosage mentioned in these links above.    I had been considering a light box for phototherapy for SAD but had not placed an order when I read your blog.    So far, results from the start of the Lithium Orotate are observable and I have decided to follow the intake levels suggested in Dr Writes's two part article.   As I mentioned in my response to your blog, I have recently had my lithium level checked last fall through the Yasko Protocol testing facilities in a combination panel.   My resultant Lithium level was well within what is considered "reference range" at that time.  I see my MD in a few months and will have him test me after a few months on this dosage to be sure that my level is not too high.Christian (Munchman) Thanks for sharing, I might not have even thought of Lithium Orotate as a possible adjunct had you not shared what you were trialing.      This situation has been true for me for a number of adjuncts that I take, I first learned about them here (Thanks Raven you have introduced me to a good number of my adjuncts.)     Anyway,  I start the adjunct, and then I inform my MD and he already is aware of them but never suggests them initially.   Seems I need to be the one to instigate these alternative supplements and protocols, guess that puts the responsibility more on my shoulders for the politics of it all!!

Louise,

That is a very nice find. Lithium Orotate dissociates into lithium and orotic acid which has a pKa of 2.98. And since it is a B vitamin it should be actively transported across cell membranes and the BBB. Look at some of my recent pH and metabolism posts for more information.

What dose are you taking? What did you start at?

- Paul

Paul, Thanks for the comment here on this topic forum regarding Lithium Orotate - mood enhancing mineral.  Have you read the articles through the links that I have posted yet?  These will answer the question on appropriate low dosing range and also highlight the different expressions of dosage.       The supplement bottles generally give the combination lithium orotate amount and the instructions give the elemental lithium contained in that combination in the suggested low dose ranges.  A great source of confusion and could be problematic for those that do not read the entire articles.  So I hesitate to to talk specifics when so many people just skim posts, that can be seen from many comments here over time regarding abx instructions.  The information available is very specific and people time after time seem not to read it entirely.  I for one do not want to lead anyone anywhere except to information so that they can formulate their own choices based on it.Munchman started this topic as I stated above and after doing some reading as I stated above I was able to find the supplement easily and since it is inexpensive as supplements go, I picked it up at the health food store. It has been 14 days now and I am at the top of the suggested range in devided dosage over the course of the day.I am finding a number of effects.  I mentioned my interest as I have been considering a light box for SAD like symptoms and the articles mention this as one of the conditions that might be aided by Lithium Orotate.   My observations;   Awake later in the evening without drowsiness (till 10 - 11 PM).     Sleeping more soundly and awaking refreshed.   Better mental focus, have not mindlessly misplaced anything in the past week.  A more solid feeling state with better follow through more easily on tasks.  Brighter affect less mental chatter a greater make a decision and them take charge and do it now with lack of procrastination and indecision (remember I was considering the lightbox).     I have been wearing a pedometer of and on for a year now.   I seem to have doubled my average daily steps without a long walk to boost the numbers since we are snowed here and the cold is sub zero periods have been brief out of doors.  To me this means that I am up and about and moving spontaneously twice as far during the day and not even noticing it, so I would guess that I am moving faster and I seem to be accomplishing more mundane tasks with greater energy and ease and purpose.Is this placebo effect perhaps but read the articles in the links above if you have not and then follow through to the references provided if you have the ability to read those sources.   This seems not to be new information just something that I had not investigated and am glad that Munchman was open with his sharing of his experience.     Like many topics I add to the bookmarks forum this one is likely to pass without much comment but the information is here and once I am sure that I will continue with this (after my spring MD appointment and blood level check) I will add it to my blog of what works for me so that others that find what works for me helpful might investigate it.Paul, At the moment I am not out to kill CPn so your pH and metabolism posts are not currently of interest as I am not on a schedule of CAP, have been off for 2 years now for the most part (several intermittent pulses). I am out to feel as good as I can and have been off regular CAP for two years.   I have active Rx for intermittent CAP dosing and had blood work in the fall for titers and CD 57 both very much improved.  I support my methylation cycle defects as per discovery through the Yasko Protocol program.  I keep my D3 level in the upper acceptable ranges, have not been ill with any respiratory illness since getting my D3 up.   I consider myself as one of those successfully treated with the Wheldon Protocol and at the least in current long term remission ? cured?  Time will tell I don't think on that much.  My blogs stand to tell my story the link is in my signature.My thinking is that Bb and CPn are endemic in the population (my doctor actually agreed with me on my last visit when I made this statement).And that some folks manage their chronicity of these types of chronic bacterial (and or viral) conditions better than others, some of which is about their genetic predisposition to preform detoxification processes or deficiencies in detoxification(as I personally have found for myself) has enabled me to manage my health currently. When I manage my toxins and keep my immune system supported then life has quality with or without the co-inhabitors of my body.   My goal is to feel as good as I can for as long as I can without constantly focusing in a fear based way constantly on the organizms co-habitating my body.  I go days now without thinking actively about where I stand with these species,  I did my time down and out with the CAP, may need to go there again sometime perhaps and for having that information and capability to institute it I feel most appreciative to those that no longer post here but set up the availability this information archive.   I hope in adding occasionally to it with what works for me that I am paying it forward so to speak.   And I keep touching base occasionally here as new supports, like Lithium Orotate, methylation supports per the Yasko Protocol, Vit D, LDN, desicated thyroid, Ursodiol, Cholystyramine, alternate combined abx protocols (use of Biaxin for azithromycin and roxi) have all become know to me because I read posts here.      LouisePS Lithium is not a B complex vitamin it is a mineral.

 Lithium orotate is known to upregulate autophagy: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=lithium+orotate+autophagy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=6131a187c1c25a1b PSHa! I'm allowed to post links?! Thanks for adjusting your spam filter! 

FF, the key to posting is limit to 3 links, limit to 3 edits, no directly copied from the internet text from other websites all of these are the things that will have your posts eliminated.   I have learned this through trial and error.  Nothing has been adjusted.   You might repost the topic with an eye to these tips.  You could also compose it in word or some such program and then copy and past it into a new topic.  If you use plain text that often will be accepted as well.  Nice to see that there may be more reasons to consider Lithium Orotate.   Often these sorts of topics recieve little attention and pass into the archive without comment here.    Still I post them, if nothing else I can find the information easily later on.Thanks form providing the supporting link, I have not looked at it yet.  

The spam filter was not 'adjusted'.

Hi Louise,

I of course was not referring to lithium as B vitamin but orotic acid (orotate). And it is actually not a B vitamin although it is structurally close enough that is used to be designated Vitamin B-13. Anyway thanks for the information you were willing to share. If you would be willing to share specifics via PM such as dosages you have taken and any more specific effects (i.e. any die off type effects at any dosage) that would be appreciated as well.

- Paul

Might want to be careful with Lithium Orotate if you have any thyroid problems. I ran across this article: http://www.vrp.com/dear-doctor/lithium-iodine-lyme-disease-4024I was curious because I had read something about Iodine and Lithium conflicting. I'm still reserving judgement about this supplement until I can read more about it.

Lithium Orotate makes me depressed every time I try taking it. Good supplement on paper, but not in practice, for me at least.

It has been three weeks now on the Lithium Orotate no problems, just smooth mood, metal clarity, improvement in some minor body aches (thumb), and sound solid sleep.   It seems to be working well for me as an additional adjunct at this point.  I will continue to observe my stateI will have the lithum blood level checked next month.  I am following Dr Wright's dosage suggestion which are outlined in the articles links provided at the start of this forum topic posts.

Do you, guys, still take lithium orotate? I tested it myself (thank you Munchman!) and it gave me nice immediate calming effect, so I decided to stay with it for some time. Unfortunately this effect seems to last only few hours, so I tried to increase the dose to 2x5mg daily. I take it during lunch and in later evening, however I still have the same problem in the morning when I feel there is zero effect. I read that half life of lithium is about 20-28 hours, so it seems to be strange.... What is your experience or explanation..?

Thanks for these links. A few days ago I got a batch of supplements. Among them A bottle of Lithium Aspartate is. My brain must wait till it gets Lithium. I am going to order Lithium Orotate. The bottle of Lithium Aspartate stays unopened. 

Aspartate is good, too...

Yes, Lala, but I am afraid not for MS. As I have understood aspartate is neurotoxic and I don't need any additional neurotoxins. Also Orotate acid is good for MS and is or was used for the treatment of MS so for me the only result is that I should wait for Lithium Orotate which I ordered yesterday. 

Apparently lithium has some antiviral properties. Does anybody observe less viral problems? I read some posts it can be better than Famvir and Valcyte. Below are few studies. Evaluation of Lithium as an Inhibitory Agent of Herpes Simplex Virus in Cell Cultures and During Reactivation of Latent Infection in Rabbitsaac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/25/4/522.pdfDisruption of Herpes Virus Nucleocapsids using Lithium Iodide, Guanidine and Mercaptoethanol http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/20/3/395.pdf(WO/2001/049300) COMBINATIONS FOR THE TREATMENT OF DNA VIRAL INFECTIONS COMPRISING A LOOP DIURETIC AND LITHIUMhttp://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?...0&DISPLAY=DESC  http://www.igsli.org/general.html#Anchor-5677The Antiviral Effect of Lithium in the Treatment of Herpes Simplex Infections (J.K. Rybakowski)Under experimental conditions, lithium inhibits the replication of herpes simplex virus types 1 (HSV-1) and 2 (HSV-2) at a concentration of 5-30 mmol/l, most likely by interfering with viral DNA synthesis.Long-term treatment with lithium at doses typical for the prophylaxis of affective disorders can attenuate or even inhibit the reactivation of labial or genital herpes infections, both in patients with affective psychoses and in individuals who do not suffer from a psychiatric illness.Topical therapy with 8% lithium succinate ointment has been shown to have a positive therapeutic effect on herpes lesions.The effect of lithium on herpes infections may not only be due to the inhibition of viral DNA synthesis, but also to the stress-reducing, immunomodulatory, and anti-inflammatory properties of the drug. 

I started Doctor's Best Lithium Orotate just yesterday. I slept much better and today I had also to sleep this afternoon. But it wasn't the sleeping as the result of tiredness. It seemed to be a kind of regeneration. Also my head felt strange yesterday - something between a light pain and pressure. As if something was done in my head. But I am on the pulse. Anyway the sensation was new for me.

Louise,It appears likely that reducing the pH of C. Pneumonia causes Cpn in the cryptic state to convert to reticulate body state and makes them more susceptible to antimicrobial agents. The only mechanism that has been identified in Cpn which regulates its internal pH is the putative NhaD protein. This protein exports sodium and imports hydrogen ions (protons) when pH reaches some level (typically around a pH of 8).NhaD is referred to as a Na+(Li+)/H+ antiporter. The Li+ is included as in addition to preventing the orgnism from exceeding some pH level, it also exports lithium as its build up could become toxic to the organism. So lithium might activate this protein and lower cryptic Cpn's internal pH. Lowering cryptic Cpn pH moderately appears to lower its expression of HSP-60 which might explain the improvements you have noted. Lowering it further should allow it to convert to to RB state and become susceptible to antimicrobial agents.Anyway I have not personally tried lithium orotate and it has not been tested in vitro so I really can't speak for its efficacy other than to note that it might have a novel and interesting mechanism of action.- Paul

Just wanted to bump this thread and ask the people still on this mineral how its working for you ? Are you still using ? Still feeling good ?

Hi Lala and Jesper,  My Doctor had no problem with my taking this supplement and he did not feel that the dose that I was taking, which was 20mg/day as reccomended by Dr. Wright (which I found by researching his information on his webite, was not strong enough to bother testing my blood level, as some responders cautioned in response at the time of original posting of this topic.  I have remained on this for the past year and emotionally I am nicely stable.   When I started taking it I was considering the lack of sunlight to be the reason for my draggy symptoms and it helped but on a much higher dose than was suggested by Christian which was the 5mg/day, I started on 10mg and worked up to 20mg/day in devided dosing.I was inspired by Christian to take a look at the supplement and then from the information that I review through the links that I have posted above and decided to go for it.  I have not been disappointed in the results.       Louise

I too was very pleased by results with lithium orotate. Thank you, Munchman! I am taking it since summer and slowly raised my dose to 15mg per day. Do you take it 2x or 3 times daily, lady's? Also I do at least 2 hours gap in between lithium and atb, though I am not sure it is a must... I also added tryptophan 250-500mg before going to sleep. It is mentioned in excellent book I read: The mood cure writen by Julia Ross, which is about improving our mental state by using supplements. (http://www.moodcure.com/) I can recommend this reading to everybody.