27 Apr 2018

The gut.


As always, i’m coming at this from a point of ignorance, but it’s a question i’ve had for some time, and I’d love your thoughts.The noise around the role of the gut, in chronic disease, gets louder, although,i think, most theories are just that, unproven. Many of us here, have gut issues, intolerances, which, may, give rise to bowel problems and/or pain. A number of CAP-ers  have Crohn‘s disease! Those of us following a CAP must believe in a pathogenic cause, i know I’m convinced! i wonder how the gut fits into the CPN picture.


Crohn's disease is quite similar to the disease lymphogranuloma venereum, which is caused by Chlamydia trachomatis.  In contrast, the other major lower bowel disease, ulcerative colitis, seems more like a dysbiosis: Crohn's disease spreads to other areas nearby, whereas ulcerative colitis doesn't, so it's a reasonable guess that ulcerative colitis is mainly about the organisms living inside the colon.


Persons with Crohn’s Disease have a high incidence of brain white matter hyperintensities, notably in the periventicular region (which is usually where the early lesions in MS are located. This is an interesting paper: [Cerebral white matter lesions in patients with Crohn's disease. Chen M, Lee G, Kwong LN, Lamont S, Chaves C. J Neuroimaging. 2012 Jan;22(1):38-41.] Here is a brief history of a such a patient— I advised on a woman in her early 40s, a financier. She had bizarre mental symptomatology and was quite irrational. She had no insight into her illness. An MRI scan showed multiple white-matter hyperintensities typical of severe MS, though she had no motor or sensory signs or symptoms. She might be said to have had a forme fruste of MS. A C. pneumoniae specific IgA Elisa was morbidly raised (SeroCPquant: Savyon Diagnostics, Israel). Interestingly, she had a long history of Crohn's Disease for which she underwent a complete colectomy. She refused treatment and lost contact. [from my webpage http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/personality-change.html

D W - [Myalgia and hypertension (typically 155/95.) Began (2003) taking doxycycline and macrolide and later adding metronidazole. No medication now. Morning BP typically 110/75]

Thank you David and Norman for responding to me.I guess the answer is the latter suggestion, that, as an intracellular pathogen, cpn is considered, effectively, omnipresent in the host. It’s interesting that a disease exhibiting symptoms  akin to Chron’s is known to be caused by a chlamidial infection.  I remember, soon after my diagnosis, reading a headline, which asserted MS was caused by an STD, horrified, i didn’t read on, especially knowing that, very occasionally, children get MS, i guess there was a misunderstanding of CPN, but, I wonder if it could be  caused  by inherited contamination, i expect that, as an asymptomatic disease, it was rarely, if ever, recognised and treated, before the latter half of the 2oth century. But, i know nothing, I just have questions, and I’m grateful for your responses.Jane

MS symptoms from 2001, DX RRMS in 2008, following, a change of hospital who sent me for an MRI, precipitated by some sight loss. Took Interferons, on and off. Prescribed  chemo infusions to slow pro

Jane, sometimes people are born with a genetic propensity to develop MS, so if they get a chronic C pn infection, MS may be the result.  Nobody on either side of my family ever had MS, but some people with MS have fathers or mothers with the disease. I think this might be the article you saw:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-138955/MS-sexually-transmitted.html It was published in many places at the time, not just in the Daily Mail.Professor Alistair Compston of Cambridge University, who is not normally my favourite neurologist, said of the theory in the last paragraph, "As no new facts have been reported, this paper has little, if any, scientific value. The hypothesis falls down quickly and repeatedly in the face of known facts."

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Hi Sarah,Yes, this must be the story, although, i’m pretty sure, the headline I saw, left no room for doubt, although, after all these years, my memory may have invented it!I also don’t have any close family members with MS, just a second cousin, of my nana, who lost her sight for a year, this was in, either, the very early 20th or late 19th centuries, she had no diagnosis and no further events.  i’ve just returned from a long, solo, dog walk, so it’s time I started contributing to the site! Yippee!Jane

MS symptoms from 2001, DX RRMS in 2008, following, a change of hospital who sent me for an MRI, precipitated by some sight loss. Took Interferons, on and off. Prescribed  chemo infusions to slow pro

Jane, We can't think of cpn as a solely MS-related disease, though.  The question has to be more of a 'does anyone in your family have an autoimmune disease' type of question.  In the early days of this site, when a lot of us were trying to feel our way in the dark, we realized we had relatives with psoriasis, rosacea, irritable bowel, weird allergies... and started to see members of the same families having high incidences of 'autoimmune' diseases and it became clear the cpn infections could be manifesting themselves differently, depending on genetics.  Many people, early on, reported having their different issues start disappearing on the abx protocol,  particularly allergies to wool and pets.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Thanks Mac!i think you’ve answered my main uncertainty, which i’ve been tiptoeing around, and which was to do with the famial link, of autoimmunity, and whether the cpn theory made it obsolete! (i mean the hereditary nature of auto-immunity).Jane

MS symptoms from 2001, DX RRMS in 2008, following, a change of hospital who sent me for an MRI, precipitated by some sight loss. Took Interferons, on and off. Prescribed  chemo infusions to slow pro