Why does Charcoal help CPN?
I think I remember quite a few here taking Charcoal.
I know what activated charcoal does and have used it in the past. It has helped me and also left me in need of something (Pulled something I needed from my system).
I'm guessing the CPNi have a toxin. Has it been identified? Is that specifically how the Charcoal is helping?
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3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan In for the duration.
bio,
There's also alot of info about charcoal and chlorella (another good toxin mopper) in this thread:
cholestyramineAnd more info here:
Activated Charcoal for Porphyria
NACi 2.4g, Zithi 250mg/MWF, minoi 200mg, Tinii 5day/1g/5 pulses, Valcyte
Don't believe everything you think!Supplementsi, CFIDSi/FMSi, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBSi, Sec Addisons
Reenie,
Thanks for the links, I just read those threads.
The charcoal helps me almost immediately (one capsule helps a lot) for about an hour THEN I start feeling a little spaced out. I'm sure the charcoal is taking something (one or more) that I need. I tried taking Methylcobalamin, no help. B1 seemed to help a little but not enough. I'm assuming it's a B-vitamin since that is what I would expect to be disrupted in the bowels.
"Probiotics also make certain vitaminsi needed by the body including folic acid, vitamin B6, niacin and vitamin K."
I'll try these one at a time after Charcoal and see which, if any, correct the deficiency.
Has anyone else experienced this or possibly identified what the Charcoal might take out (perhaps everything) from where it can get it's hands. I'm assuming it stays put in the digestive track and doesn't enter the blood.
I have taken the charcoal at least 2 hours away from food BTW.
Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103
Hi BioHazard, you need to get reading on the pages linked under the Getting Started tab above, that Blue tab that is easy to miss, jut click on it and see. It will bring you to all kinds of information regarding the Birth, Popagation and Demise of CPni, more than you might every want to know but must if this treatment CAPi is to make sense to you. There is more info in depth under the other tabs of course but the Blue tab is a great consise place to start. There is no way to get around getting to be an educated patient.
Louise
I have had a similar topic last week. nearly similar answers. Actually noticed the same that this helps me the most! Take hours away from everything if you dont want it to be absorbed. I have also read that it stays in your digestive to absorb toxins. I was always wondering if 100% surely this doesnt have any effect on medicine absorption there when abxi get in to your digestives to kill the bugs.but thats just my theory and they always say it doesnt effect anything if you have some hours apart from them.
Also for sure that it not enters in your blood stream and not going to absorb anything on that level....thats why they can use it for medical purposes only until the poison stays in your digestive track...not when it went already into your blood :(((
It Seemed like Vitamin K helped a lot yesterday. I should know more after a week or so.
"Activated charcoal is used for routine absorption of gastrointestinal poisons"
"Charcoal will absorb gas and toxins and remove them quickly from your system. Activated charcoal can be bought from any health food store. However, activated charcoal is indiscriminate in what it absorbs. Therefore, it should not be taken with food or medicines as it would absorb them, too, and it should not be taken over long periods of time. It is, however, good for instant relief of gas and toxins (Baker, p. 90)."
http://books.google.com/books?id=dAoFh3vGsFQC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=%22act...
Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103
I good question is that if Charcoal operates primarily in the digestive tract then how exactly is it helping CPNi? Somehow the endotoxinsi are finding their way (blood->liver->bile?) into the digestive tract and that's where they are causing their grief.
Hmmm... that might explain why I feel worse after eating a lot of the time. If that's the case one might do well to have a "sacrificial meal/snack" just before taking the Charcoal. Preferably a fatty snack (nuts) that would get the liver dumping bile. Sacrificial because some of it's nutritional content may get removed by the charcoal.
This makes perfect sense to me. I've read about Lyme patients taking their Chlorella 1/2 hour before eating as to have it in place for the bile dump. For me, my digestion is fast (24 hours or less) I can feel the charcoal working within 5 minutes so I'm not going to wait 1/2 hour.
Can't wait to try this!
Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103
well it makes sense to me as well. I feel worse sometimes when i eat a lot with my CPNi symptoms. Not anymore but used to notice that...interesting thought, not sure if right though :)))
Are you sure it doesnt have any effect on medicines if we take them hours apart?Biohazard, Your comment "good question is that if Charcoal operates primarily in the digestive tract then how exactly is it helping CPNii? Somehow the endotoxinsii are finding their way (blood->liver->bile?) into the digestive tract and that's where they are causing their grief.
Yes the liver detoxifies and eliminates porphorins and fatty endotoxins into the bile from the liver then they are dumped into the small intestine some are excreted in the BM (stool, bowel movement) however much is absorbed once again as the bile salts are supposed to be with fats that you digest you need bile salts. This explains partly why taking this medication in large amounts continuously could be detriemental and has fallen out of favor for cholesteroli control for which it was designed.
So it does not help CPn it helps those sensitive to porphorins and fatty endotoxins to lighten that load and feel less fatigue, brain fog, and maybe even some neurological benefits because of the irritation that these substances can have for some people.
Yes a small fatty snack could be helpful in stimulating bile dump.
Personally charcoal was not enough to make a difference for me. I am happy for you that it is enough to help you.
Louise
>Yes the liver detoxifies and eliminates porphorins and fatty endotoxinsi into the bile from the liver then they are dumped into the small intestine some are excreted in the BM (stool, bowel movement) however much is absorbed once again as the bile salts are supposed to be with fats that you digest you need bile salts.
Are you saying that the Charcoal is inhibiting the recycling of the bile salts? I know the "absorbing agent" is supposed to keep the toxin from being reabsorbed. Popular agent choices being chlorella, Charcoal and Bentonite Clay (which I have but yet to try)
Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103
biohazard,
Here's what I think is a good explanation of how charcoal works with diagrams and all:
It interrupts the enterohepatic circulation of some drugs/toxins and their metabolites.
NACi 2.4g, Zithi 250mg/MWF, minoi 200mg, Tinii 5day/1g/5 pulses, Valcyte
Don't believe everything you think!Supplementsi, CFIDSi/FMSi, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBSi, Sec Addisons
Thanks Reenie,
Louise,
I'm now wondering on the flip side why it is that after about an hour after taking charcoal and enjoying feeling better I start to feel a little different (not bad just spacey/odd) . What could either the Charcoal be removing (leaving me with a bile deficit perhaps?) or doing that might make me feel like this?
Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103
Bio- Yes, the enterohepatic recirculation is precisely why charcoal (and cholestyramine) helps the misery caused by fat-soluble endotoxinsi and porphyrins that otherwise are significantly reabsorbed. I think the amount (in one reference I have read for some of the porphyrins) can be up to 60% of these toxins are reabsorbed. This means not only that these toxins continue to circulate in the blood at high levels, but that fatty tissues will store these toxins, making the increased load of these toxins over time to be quite significant, and very difficult to bring down without sustained usage of bile salt binders. So the immediate symptom relief you might get, while helpful, is not the only measure of the benefit in these kind of infectionsi.
As Louise noted, charcoal does nothing whatsoever to Cpni itself. Please read the Handbook and the Getting Started tab to understand this more completely.
CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral
Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103
I wonder if this could be a sort of self perpetuating vicious cycle. In Lyme world they talk about how the Lyme, by spewing toxic chemicals, is actually making the host more hospitable.
In normal life the pathogen is kept in check and the toxic load from any given day will influence how we feel but we still feel typically pretty good (normal).
One gets a viral illness (physiological stress) or psychological stress or both. The virus starts to gain the upper hand. The pathogen load increases as does the toxic load.
Would it make sense that if one can remove the toxins the pathogen uses for influence its environment then it will whither?
Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103