What sets us up to make us so vulnerable to CPn?

I imagine that most people here on this site have, at some time or other, asked themselves the “Why me?” question.  Of course that is a question that can never really be answered but, nevertheless, we still ask it.

Yes, I am ill; I have MS.  Medical science asserts that they don’t know the cause of my illness.  It is “Widely asserted” that it is an autoimmune disease; that my body just started to attack itself … perhaps because of a virus – or some other (unknown) factor.  Accepted opinion is fairly certain that there is a genetic component involved in my illness.

We people, here at cpnhelp.org, have been working and treating on the basis that our illnesses are caused by an infection by the bacteria Chlamydia pneumonia.  However, it is known that by the age of 50, most people have - at some time - already been infected with this common bug.  I believe that many people walk around with this infection and it causes them little problem … until an event makes them weak … and then it’s party time for CPn and many other infections.

So, lots of people get CPn.  Why do some people get so ill? Why me?  What did I do to deserve this?  Is it something that I did to myself?  Is it something somebody did to me?  Again, we can never truly know.

I have been through a lot of pain and a lot of discomfort … as well as paying out a great deal of money to have all of my amalgam fillings removed.  Did the mercury play a part in causing my MS.  It wasn’t that long after having a root canal that I got the stark MS symptoms.  I’ve had all the mercury out now … and I’ve still got MS.

Why?  Why?  We can ask “Why” but we can never actually know for certain. Even we that believe in the CPn hypothesis generally do not believe that CPn is the only factor.

Is there more MS today than there was 100 years ago?  We can’t really know that.  Is there more asthma today than there was?  I really don’t know … but I suspect that there may be.  Are there more allergies and food intolerances than there used to be?  Is there more cancer today than there used to be?  I don’t have the figures for that and so my guess would be rather pointless.  I certainly don’t believe that populations are as healthy as is loudly proclaimed.

A while back, a famous member advanced the suggestion – the hope – that they’d have a vaccine for CPn.  Today, I have become highly sceptical about many things: including the very doctrine of vaccination.

Recently, I have spent much time watching and commenting on videos and posts about vaccines and the concept of vaccination.  In more than one of these videos, it is suggested that vaccines may have played a role in the advances in the growth of “Autoimmune” diseases as well as the rise in cancers.

Here at cpnhelp, by definition, we are open-minded.   By definition, we are prepared to look at alternatives.  We are the people that have not taken what established medicine has told us as fact … and we have looked at an alternative; hence we are here.

As an ill person that is a member of a highly vaccinated population the “Why” question still reverberates.  Below are links to YouTube videos that feature vaccination, illnesses and various concerns.  Much of what is below is not directly linked to what we are at but some of it cast further doubt on the Big Phama that many of us here already mistrust.  Those with time may get a chance to watch.






Now I don’t want to seem biased and in the interest of balance, I ought to put forward a video featuring the opposing viewpoint … and here it is:


To those with the time: enjoy!



Thanks supaguy,

i totally agree with you. good words.




RRMS since 2010. Asthma sufferer during  2008-2012 - Free of asthma since started  Wheldon protocol- october 2012 doxy 200mg, Azytrom 3x week, NAC 1200g day and vitamins-  January 2013 started Flagyl pulses. i s

We will now be having a new vaccine for meningitis B and parents with young children should be very glad because meningitis B can lead to death or if you recover you might still end up losing your arms and legs.  I saw a film just the other day where this had happened to a child of five.  Then when someone of eighteen goes away to university they fall prey to many new infections and a few will get meningoccal septicemia and die in a VERY short time.  David has had to tell two sets of parents that their child has died in this way.

Now David has a scar from a smallpox jab on his arm, but I don't because by he time I got to the same age, smallpox had been wiped out in this country because of vaccination.

I did have a polio vaccine though, but a friend's mother went down with polio, ended up in an iron lung and although she recovered, she was permanently crippled wth the disease.

I was also vaccinated against TB and this was very nearly eliminated in the UK but is now making a comeback with unvaccinated people coming to live here.

So yes, I am very pro-vaccination because many people's lives have been saved.  There are two lines of thought about the MMR vaccine but surely the answer would be to split the vaccine into three: the children wouldn't mind because then they would get three lots of rewards for being good.

And no, I have only watched one of these videos, the first one.......................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

This raises a few questions indeed but what I believe what iis meant to be will be. 

My daughter has been distraught, she wants to have children in the near future and asked me if there is a test to see if she has the likelihood of getting MS or your offspring.

 I  once read it is more likely to skip the one generation and rear it's ugly head in the next!  I don't know how to answer.  I personally would never have had children if I knew I was going to get  this disease for fear of passing it on.

I don't come from good stock, but we cannot live our lives in fear either.  Who knows a CURE may be in the foreseeable future but that is what was tauted 10 years ago!

I don't know how to answer her questions... Does anyone know if there is a test?  Some people would  still choose to carry a downs-syndrome baby even after the scan.  So this is a very tenuous subject.  I have told her to ask her dr.  She is panicing.


Ps her other half is a survivor of meningitis!

Probably the best way to go would be to get checked out at 23 and me, and for a low cost see what diseases she is prone to (which may be different from you).  That way, she can supplement and use diet to prevent many chronic diseases.  Irene

Hey Jam ...

You were right when you said "What is meant to be will be".  If only it were possible to know the future ... but it isn't.  Even if a child is perfectly healthy, that child could still get run over by a bus or have taken a doomed flight over the Alps.  I try to guess and predict the Euromillions numbers twice a week ... and I'm still here.  Whether perfectly healthy or not, to its mother, that will be the most wonderful and perfect child on the planet.  I have hear very few reasons to believe that your grandchild will not indeed be the most perfect child in the world.

Please do give your daughter my best wishes for now and for the future of her family.



“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln


Thanks all, especially you SuperGuy, you seem to know how to say things in the nicest possible way.  I did say  to her that none of us know what is round the corner.  Hell war even.  She would make a good Mum and who knows if mediciñe will advance so much that there may be cures for a lot of diseases, we need to live our lives and not live in fear.

Take care all.


Hi Sarah!

Your final words before signing off were “And no, I have only watched one of these videos, the first one....”  Yes, I could tell that was the case.  Had you have seen the series in the 2nd link, it’d have been clear to you that just to reiterate and reaffirm what you have always believed in the past, is not sufficient .

Before I end up getting in trouble from the editor, I’ll say here that I didn’t post those links because vaccines are the hobbyhorse that I currently ride.  No, the reason I posted this stuff here at cpnhelp was because there is a valid argument for thinking that there are other factors at play that set our bodies up to take a fall.  None of us can claim to “Know” with any certainty … we all take guesses and have hunches.

This story makes me think back to the time when I first knew the woman that I am with.  I am in engineering.  She told me that she did “Payroll”.  It was in a very slow and condescending voice in whic she later explained to my very sorry-looking face “No G, PAYROLL - not role-play!  They sound sort of similar … but they aren’t the same at all.  Now this sort of confusion with similar sounding words can occur in many areas of life to all sorts of people.  Yes, I am quite sure that you were indeed inoculated with vaccines.  I am equally sure that you were equally indoctrinated by the concept of vaccination - as was I - as were most other people.

By definition, people here at this website do not follow the norm – they look beyond.  Those prepared to accept accepted practice should not even be considering taking antibiotics etc.  The fact is that people here have looked at what The Establishment has told them and they have rejected it: hence, they are here.

Your husband has a scar from a smallpox jab on his left arm: so do I.  You were vaccinated with Polio vaccines: so was I.  You believe that vaccines caused the eradication smallpox: so did I.  You believe that vaccination has polio on the run in those few remaining places in the world and wiped it out completely in developed countries.  Yes, I believed that too.  I am not as young as I used to be and neither am I as trusting as I used to be.  I used to believe that when a tooth was place under my pillow, it would be substituted with a sixpence in the night (by a fairy).  I used to believe in so many things.  The payroll lady referred to earlier rarely watches the new; she says it’s always bad.  We live in a relatively free country.  You are free to believe whatever you choose.  If you want to carry on believing in the vaccine panacea, you can … though I advise you not to watch the videos that strongly challenge that belief; videos that not only show very powerful the logic behind the challenge to the concept that vaccines actually work, but show the tragedies as well as the corruption.  Watching videos that show the uncomfortable truth will only make you uncomfortable … so not watching was a smart move.

You and I have both seen the recent UK news that Jeremy Hunt has finally sanctioned the introduction of yet another vaccine babies.  My hope is that this vaccine does not kill or maim lots of children.  Please forgive me if I seem cynical.  Please forgive my lack of trust in companies like Merck and GSK … but do remember, they are criminals.  Yes, they have criminal convictions and been fined $ BILLIONS.  Remember too, that they have been indemnified against victim litigation by government.   US citizens cannot sue vaccine manufacturers for damages.  Vaccine-damaged victims have to claim off the government.  So far, the US vaccine “Court” has paid out over $2.5 BILLION.  Here in the UK, our government indemnifies them against litigation too.  They screw up and we pay out!

If there are others out there that are not too ruffled by hearing alternatives to what they’ve grown up to believe; if there are others open to an alternative perspective, then both the previous links and the ones below are all worth a look.



This next one’s a very lengthy, lacks charisma and has only bits & bobs relevant to us but still worth a watch to anyone with the time.


I am one of those people that doesn’t have all the answers.  I am one of those people that’s prepared to take a look.  If I wasn’t that type of person, I don’t think I’d be here at cpnhelp.


“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln

Glenn, yes I have now watched the second video and I still think the same way about the importance of childhood vaccines.  All the people who think otherwise will have had the vaccines available when they were children and don't know what it was like before they were available:  One big reason why people had such large families in the nineteenth century was because of the number of their children who were likely not to live to be adults.  By the mid twentieth century if you contracted tuberculosis you could be put in an iron lung if you couldn't breath but otherwise you might die or end up very disabled.  Right up until the nineteen fifties, there were polio epidemics.  Many people would hardly be affected but others would get infantile paralysis and be completely unable to move for a few days.  Some died but the ones who recovered ended up disabled in one way or another.  Even a disease like measles is normally something that just gives you red spots for a couple of weeks and fever for a couple of days, but some people can get a severe encephalitis and some can die.  Then there is rubella, an epidemic of which used to occur every few years.  If you happen to catch it when you are pregnant, there is a big chance either that you will have a miscarriage or of you unborn child having heart, lung or brain abnormalities or being born deaf or with cataracts.  For all these diseases we now have vaccines and one for meningitis B is now going to be available  This disease is most common in young children and in many cases they recover, but in others they either die or end up losing anything up to all four of their limbs.

These are some of the reasons why I will continue to support childhood vaccines, nothing to do with indoctrination: I am perfectly able to think for myself.

Incidentally, two things: I have never had a 'flu vaccine and I am very grateful for the same pharmaceutical companies for developing the antibiotics which we are all taking or have taken........................Sarah


Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Hi Samit!

Just like a great many across the globe, you have amalgam fillings.  I wish I'd never let anyone put mercury into me in the first place but, once it's in, taking it out has to be done with great care.

My fillings were removed by a special mercury-free dentist.  He had a special mask over my nose to stop the mercury vapour and a dosed me up with charcoal before surgery.  I regretted it many times; as I said, there was much pain and discomfort for many months afterwards.  That whole procedure is not one to be undertaken lightly.  Certainly, for the time being, do not let anyone put any more mercury into your body.  You have enough on your plate at the moment, I think. Depending on how many fillings you've got, it can be a big undertaking.  One thing at a time.



“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln

Hey Samit ...

I composed a quite lengthy reply to this earlier ... and it's gone ... disappeared: sod!

Anyway, I don't know how many amalgam fillings you've got but having them out should not be undertaken lightly.  I had mine done by a special mercury-free dentist.  I did it over 18 months and many times I regretted starting.  I had much pain and discomfort.  Right now, you've got enough going on.  For now, don't let anyone put any more mercury into your body.  If you have any work done on existing fillings make sure none goes down your throat, either as vapour or bits.

Speak more another day.

Good luck.



“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln


Thanks Irene,  I did have the saliva test years  ago when I tried to find out why I was sick all the time and it did not indicate MS.  The medical dr's did  not know nor the ones that specialised in natural medicine (the one who did the saliva testing).  I do not know the answer!


When I was first diagnosed and still reading up on MS, the figures were only very slightly higher for MS running in families than not,

Since we're operating on the premise of MS being caused or triggered by a cpn infection, which is treatable, I'd say your daughter is unduly concerned.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

What makes us vulnerable to cpn and autoimmune diseases, likely a combination of things. I had a series of Hepatitis B shots in graduate school and wound up with Graves disease a few years later and always wondered if there was a link. Due to having severe mono at 18 I have a low WBC count, barely in the normal range. I appear to have contacted cpn on a trip to Costa Rica. (During the previous year I was under a lot of stress. ) I was sick with respiratory infection for a couple of weeks and then had eustachian tube irritation followed by temporal artery sensitivity, numbness. It never really progressed to temporal arteritis but rather seemed to settle into my blood. I think this is because conditions are favorable there as I am weak in the WBC department, whereas temporal arteritis favors high cholesterol/plaque which I don't have. In any event I became sick as a dog with low grade fever and profound malaise and almost lost my job as I could not work for 3 months. I stumbled upon this site and was lucky enough to have a doctor who started me on abx until I could see one of the specialists. I tested positive for cpn and antibodies lessened and now are absent following treatment. Still ramping up on abx.  I was able to return to work. So thank you all for this site as I was very fortunate to find it-my doctors did not have a clue what to do other than prescribe more tests which were inconclusive. It seems that the cause of autoimmune type diseases is complex and multifactorial, as well as how one handles cpn, and the treatment may need to be complex and varied as well.       


Ok.  Mindful this is not a site dedicated to the pros & cons of vaccination, I’ll just reiterate why raised this issue.  It is alleged by many health professionals and doctors that vaccines often carry other little goodies that we are sometimes totally unaware of.  One example quoted in several of the videos was the SP40, cancer-causing, monkey virus.  That’s one of them that we know about.  So, part of the point was that most of us here are ill and we are not really too sure why.  Accepting that we’ve probably got a CPn infection (as have many well people), what else have we got that sets us up to become just so ill?  Could all the vaccines, in fact, be making monkeys out of us?

I am glad that you found time to watch the 2nd video in the list, Sarah.  That 2nd link was to a video series of 7 chapters.  I don’t know whether you watched all 7 … but any how; not to worry: the first gives the flavour of what is to be said.  A fact that was claimed throughout that series is that vaccines are neither safe nor effective; or , put another way, vaccines don’t do what they say they’re doing and there dangerous as well.  That series of 7 videos makes its case really well.  I found that lady’s case most compelling.  As she points out in that video and many of the others videos too, all of those diseases were falling before the mass vaccination campaigns.

At the age of 15, I had to study for exams.  Although I had very poor handwriting and atrocious spelling, I was quite proficient in recounting the advances made by Edward Jenner, Joseph Lister and Louis Pasteur.  Like nearly all people with any education at all, I took the concept vaccination as fact.  Throughout medicine, vaccination is taken as a given, unquestionable, truth.  I have argued that same unarguable fact with a family member and won the argument (I thought).  I used the unbeatable argument that vaccines eradicated smallpox from the planet.  So that is where I have come from.  Having seen good evidence to the contrary, I now believe differently.

You have the links before you.  There, a sound case is made to the contrary.  To refute that case you seem to be saying – in short – that there used to be a lot of disease.  In times past, that disease used to kill and maim lots of people.  Today we don’t lots of those diseases.  Today we have a vaccine for nearly everything.  Yes and yes and yes.  All of that is true.  I too am against disease.  You just said “I believe”.  You are free to “Believe”, as we all are.  It was shown that in many cases the vaccines don’t work or in fact cause the very disease that they were supposed to prevent.  In India there are lots of paralysed people but they have just call it something else.

Sarah, when you were a young child, you caught scarlet fever.  I still remember a playground game of touch where you’d shout to the fellow you’d just touched “You’ve got the fever touch!”  I believe that the fever being referred to was Scarlet Fever.  You know what that was like: very contagious.  I believe that you were unlucky enough to catch that.  Thank God (or Fleming) for antibiotics.  Antibiotics cleared your Scarlet Fever.  We don’t hear of that like we did in the 50s & 60s.  That’s another one of those bygone illnesses.  Mostly gone … along with a long list of others that have gone.  Did Scarlet Fever go due to vaccines?  No?  Oh … it went, just like the others but with no vaccine?

I am not particularly a maverick; I tend to believe the accepted view of most things … until I see good evidence to the contrary.  I used to believe the doctrine of vaccination; I saw good sound evidence that contradicts traditional dogma, and now I believe differently.

Tomorrow, I shall take the pharmaceutical drug, roxithromycin.  I feel confident that there are no hidden viruses, monkey DNA or any other nasties in it (swallowed monkey DNA is not such a big deal anyway).   I certainly am not anti-science; I have always believed in science.  Science is not a religion though; it’s no good to just “Believe”, there should be evidence.  When it comes to vaccines, evidence is the thing that is squashed and dismissed.  No I have used the tag line “So open-minded my brains have fallen out!”  Now me quoting that may sound like something of an own goal … but I say it because I realise that this is not a game of football or squash; we are debating what is truth.  When I take my roxithromycin tomorrow, I am confident that there are double blind trials that show that the pill that I am popping is safe and effective.  Nearly all of those pills undergo that sort of rigorous testing.  Vaccines … do they do true double blind clinical trials?  According to the videos: not!  Do they really need to test for safety (like you’d have to test an electric blanket, a hair dryer or a tini tab)?  No!  Because the manufacturer has no liability.  The manufacturer has been given immunity by your government (and that includes any cancer-causing monkey viruses in the mix too).

As I say, I am open-minded and am free to change my mind.  If I see good evidence to contradict what I have heard, I will take that in to account too.  Here at cpnhelp, we share our knowledge; we share our experience and hopefully, in the end, come up with the answers.



“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln

Glenn, this man was born from a woman who contracted rubella when she was pregnant: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-32157820  so I hope that your children are open-minded enough not to blindly follow their father's view if you ever have grandchildren..................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.


Well, you’ve posted a link to the news that a disabled chap, conceived just after the second world war, is to see some sort of justice on hearing that his scumbag attacker is going to get locked up.

You and I actually agree on most things here.  We agree, I think, that to attack an elderly and severely disabled chap was thoroughly reprehensible.  We agree that developing disabilities is a bad crack; that applies to now or in 1947.  Neither you nor I have nasty pathogenic bacteria or viruses on our friends list: we both want to see them gone.  We both want to see healthy people born and we want to see those healthy people stay healthy.  Where you and I differ is in the certainty of how that goal might be achieved.  By the way, I feel for that old chap just as much as you and the rest of Britain does; my heart goes out to him.

Just for the record, my heart goes out to the 47,000 folks in India that are now paralysed (but we can’t call theirs polio any more).  My heart goes out too, to all of those aboriginal children killed after vaccination – as I am sure yours does too.  (Some people there are calling what happened there, genocide).

You’re hope that my children are open-minded enough not to blindly follow their father's view if I ever have grandchildren is a reality.  My children are indeed open-minded and would not follow me blindly.  As it happens, there may well be a little child in the town of your birth; likely to grow up with the Bristol twang that you long since lost.  I vehemently believe that decisions about children’s health-matters should be taken by the parenting adult (in this case; the mother).  I honestly don’t know the vaccination status of that child.  I guess, the chances are that she’s had all vaccines on time.  That she seems healthy, I thank God for.

I have only ever attempted to influence the vaccination plans of any one child.  Nearly 20 years ago now, my sister (one down from me who also has MS) gave birth to a wonderful healthy little boy.  Yes, I tried to influence his parents about MMR.  His dad being an upstanding civil servant at the Foreign Office naturally held government advice in high esteem.  When there’s bad news, there’s no gratification about being right.  Yeah, you guessed it: he was vaccine damaged.  It took years to get the diagnosis and then long hard-fought battles with the education authorities to get a Statement of Special Educational Needs.  The statementing was one area that I really could be of use; without going on about it, I’d fought many battles for statements with many Authorities and never lost a single one … and more than one educationalist has met me at their great cost.  Raising any child with autistic spectrum disorders will always be difficult and it was certainly difficult for my Nephew’s parents.  Raising a child with Asperger’s syndrome can tax a marriage to breaking point; as an outsider I can only guess the half of it.  Now I know that there are many that scoff and laugh at the very mention of the word Homeopathy.  His then desperate and cracking parents, who had seen what allopathic medicine had done, now turned in that direction.  That was many years ago now.  So what happened?  Where is the lad now?  Well, the last I heard, he was in the French Alps helping kids with their skiing.  He hasn’t got a place at either Oxford or Cambridge – but he’s a fine looking chap doing pretty OK – considering where he came from.

His parents weren’t open-minded back in the early 90s and I don’t think they’re open-minded now.  Funny that!

Sometimes I chat at length with the doctor that prescribes my LDN.  I do get the distinct feeling that doctors have to guard what they say in the current climate.  Only a fool would have not sensed the spine-chilling reaper that stood ready to hack out the tongue of any doctor tempted to utter the words “Andrew Wakefield”.  His PA is an absolutely lovely woman: wonderful in every respect, as far as I see.  She works so very hard and is such great fun.  Apart from her work, she spends much time looking after her Grandchild.  Yeah, he’s severely disabled: no skiing for him.  He became ill – gazing into space – less than 24 hours of receiving the MMR vaccine.  She’s not that open-minded now either.

To prove vaccines are safe and effective, let them do true-placebo double-blind trials (like they do for the drugs that we take).  Let vaccine manufacturers take responsibility and liability for the products that they produce (like all other manufacturers have to).

Here’s some links to pages and videos:

 YouTube videos:







Here are links to Papers & newsclips:






“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln

Glenn, a vaccine which will have undergone years of testing before it is introduced is only as safe as the people who give it out, as the people in India found when they were given the wrong dose or maybe contaminated stuff in some areas than others: look it up since you seem very fond of doing so.  You might also look up the difficulty that Aborignes have with vitamin C and also the fact that young children tend to first develop autism at the same age that they are given the mmr vaccine and they did long before the vaccine came into being.

Finally. I never had a Bristol "twang" to lose: do you still have a cockney accent or a Welsh one?..............................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Mac, I totally agree.

Glenn, I am sad that your son and your nephew both have autistic spectrum diseases, especially if they are actually caused by vaccination rather than merely being genetic but I still think that far more people have benefitted from childhood vaccination................. Sarah 

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.