Does it kill the Cryptic form outright, including the contents.....ie, ALL of it. One stage process.
Or does it open up the Cryptic form, releasing the contents for the other antibiotics to kill? Like a two stage process.
11 Jul 2011 11:36 am
11 Jul 2011 12:42 pm
12 Jul 2011 12:16 pm
12 Jul 2011 07:15 pm
Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath
13 Jul 2011 07:17 pm
14 Jul 2011 04:05 am
Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years
14 Jul 2011 04:59 pm
Now, Cpn contains some of the chemistry that anaerobic cells have. In particular, it has a gene for ferredoxin, which is used in anaerobic respiration. Ferredoxin is the molecule that passes an electron to metronidazole, activating it and turning it into a free radical that goes around chewing on DNA and other vital molecules. But that doesn't mean Cpn is ever an anaerobe: it doesn't necessarily use that ferredoxin for anaerobic metabolism, but rather might be using it for something else. (It isn't even necessarily making that ferredoxin in the first place; having a gene for something doesn't mean it's expressed.) And activation by ferredoxin isn't necessarily how metronidazole works against Cpn; that's just something that has been suggested as a possibility, not something that has been tested in detail.
15 Jul 2011 08:06 am
15 Jul 2011 09:42 am
That may be the closest thing to "layman's terms"
ever! For us non-chemists, it is a huge help.
3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan In for the duration.&am
16 Jul 2011 06:18 pm
"without other antibioticsi around, it doesn't do much against Cpn."
Can you elaborate on that?
Do you mean one should have other antibiotics in the system at the time of taking flagyl like the same day or just make sure you are on a CAP?
DAILY: NAC 2400MG , DHEA sublingual , vit D3 , multi vits,./ Three times a week: B12 injections (Hydroxycobalamin). Deer antler./ Once every few months methyl B12 Methyl injections
16 Jul 2011 08:52 pm
17 Jul 2011 01:39 am
There is a difference
When I pulse with Flagyl one day a week I do not use any other antibiotic that day I am getting results but wonder if I could get better results
17 Jul 2011 02:28 am
Homina, our protocol is pretty much this: 200mg doxycycline DAILY, 250mg azithromycin on each Monday, Wednesday and Friday, PLUS, for five days out of each twenty-eight days, we ADD 1200-1500mg a day of metronidazole or tinidazole.
You are doing something completely different. No, we do NOT take a 'day off' or a 'week off' other antibiotics when we pulse the nidazole.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
17 Jul 2011 05:32 pm
I would still like Norman to comment more on why Falgyl works best in conjunction with the two other abx
I see your points Mac but need to point out
My Doc recomended once in a while taking a break from the protocol .. he did not say weekly but left it up to my discretion .. I asked him if that would create resistance and his response was Cpn grows slowly
The once a week pulse (which I am doing with my Doc's office approval) came from Paul (who has made considerable progress) and he also did this with his Docs knowledge so I would not say I am doing something completely outrageous
In addition ,while I am on the protocol most of the time, it really stresses my kidneys and I need to give them a break once in a while, so I do
I think the question needs to be addressed why am I doing the once a week pulse? Because I want to accelerate my progress and it worked for Paul
So far so good doing it this way I'm not saying others should do this and I can still make adustments but this is working for me so far
17 Jul 2011 08:16 pm
Homina, I did not say you are doing something completely outrageous. I said you are doing something completely different from the protocol most of us here use.
Of course you are free to take whatever meds you choose, whenever you choose to use them, however often you choose. Newbies, however, who have no background in this, should be periodically reminded when a member is posting about using a protocol not normally advised here.
My response was directly related to the comment you posted, "When I pulse with Flagyli one day a week I do not use any other antibiotic that day I am getting results but wonder if I could get better results"
Perhaps you would get those 'better results', if you were using the actual protocol devised by the physicians at Vanderbilt and refined by Dr. Wheldon, which is the one I referred to, and is commonly used by the members here.
Taking sporadic abx, on and off, on and off, is one of the methods used in medical trials to DELIBERATELY create resistance. If this is how you and your doctor choose to treat your infection, then you should probably be consulting your doctor as to "When I pulse with Flagyli one day a week I do not use any other antibiotic that day I am getting results but wonder if I could get better results" .
18 Jul 2011 08:55 am
I am glad that my question produced such a good discussion !
Now.....about something else that Flagyl does.....
I started my first pulse of Flagyl a couple of weeks back. 2 hours after
dose i was out shopping and my vision started to go. Big black blotches
came across my visual field and gradually coalesced to make it difficult
to see. This has happened before and I took 6 glucose tablets. As I was
taking the tabs I started to get the more typical Hypoglycemic
symptoms . My vision returned and I headed home, feeling a bit shaky still. I took my blood sugar 30 mins after taking the glucose and it was 2.8, so I ate a meal. I didn't take another dose of Flagyl that day, but I did the following day.... this time with a more substantial breakfast, and I was fine, and did not have another Hypo attack for the rest of the 4 day pulse that I managed.
When I started the second pulse, last week, I made sure I took the
Flagyl with a good breakfast..... but the same thing happened. 2 hours
later, whilst at the shops, my vision started to go again very quickly. I
took the Glucose, got my vision back, and headed home. This time
when i got home, my blood sugar was normal. I did not have another
vision attack for the rest of the 4 day pulse.
I know Flagyl can cause Hypoglycemia, but is that what this is, or is it
an acute Porphyria episode with the first dose? I know that Porphyria
has to be treated with Glucose.... but is that because the glucose is
doing something other than addressing low sugar?
18 Jul 2011 06:08 pm
As for why Flagyl should be taken with other antibiotics, one reason that has been offered is that Cpn needs to be in the cryptic state, for Flagyl to affect it; and the other antibiotics put it into the cryptic state. Another is that bacteria have repair proteins, which could fix the DNA damage that Flagyl does to them, and the other antibiotics suppress that repair by inhibiting protein synthesis. But these mechanisms are tentative; the experiments haven't been done to nail them down precisely. Still, that something changes dramatically when Flagyl is combined with the other antibiotics is clear, and not just from the Vanderbilt experiments: doctors in general have a lot of experience with Flagyl, mostly taken on its own; and they don't regard it as producing the sort of reactions we expect from it when taken with other antibiotics -- neither the initial distress, nor the long-term improvement.
18 Jul 2011 06:32 pm
2002:CFS. (2008-09:CPN - CAP/5 pulses) 3/2010: Restart CAP: 200Doxy/250Zith-MWF/Tini pulses. 6/2010: HighBP/Benicar, 7/2010: EBV, HHV6. 2012: 6,000 IU daily vit. D., Citioline CDP choline = sleep improvement dramatic.
21 Jul 2011 02:32 am
Thanks for that explanation Norman... That makes sense
Correct Mac I did say what I said about not taking other antibiotics the day I use Flagyl
I may have to revise that kidneys permitting
I did not say I was using abx sporadically and I have no problem mentioning what I am doing to my Doc as far as my pulses goes
At any rate I am gettting good results doing what I'm doing
I am a little skeptical that resistance occurs that rapidly but will investigate