The role of Cortisol for CPN

On this forum someone wrote:

"MacKintosh, Stratton seems to suggest that if vitamin Dii helps the Cpnii, it works like a steroid. This is what Marshall calls vit D, an immunosuppressive steroid. If I did understand it correctly, e.g. excess cortisol (a steroid) transforms the Cpn from cryptic forms to replicating forms, and in that form they are more easily killed by abxii. In this case vit D would have a similar action."

 

Can anyone verify the above? There have been some threads recently where people are talking about Glucose and Pyruvate as substances that bring cryptic CPN out of hiding. Can cortisol do this also?

Does CPN cause cortisol depletion?

What is the relation between the two?

 

It is intersting to note that some segment of CFSi'ers are being helped by long term, low dose Hydrocortisone therapy. If this segment may have Lyme or Cpn could they have found another path besides the ABXi to wellness?

 

 

Hi biohazard,

Cortisol does induce Cpni into the replicating phase where it tends to be more susceptible to antibiotics. And Cpn would cause cortisol depletion as simply having a chronic infection would up regulate your immune response, thus down regulating cortisol production. I am not sure about Vitamin Di increasing cortisol production though. There are others here that have looked at in in far greater depth than me.

For those that have researched Vitamin D, is it a precursor to or catalyst in the production of cortisol? Or is this just an associative thing where they find that people who take higher doses of Vitamin D have higher levels of cortisol?

- Paul

The quote about Vit D is untrue. It is pure Marshall-fiction. Vit D is not immunosuppressive.

If anything Vitamin Di will encourage more Cpni to turn cryptic. 

Yes cortisol can act like pyruvate/glucose and bring cryptics into replicating form. There are even papers on this (unlike with pyruvate/glucose).

Cpn and other chronic infectionsi cause a flattening of the 24-hour cortisol curve and a possible blunting of the HPA-axis. Area under the curve rises, but your ability to respond to stress falls.

Vit D is neither a precursor nor a catalyst to cortisol production.

Hunter: Don't think - experiment

Garcia,

Thank you for adding that, what you have written goes along with my understand (except I didn't know that cortisol will bring CPNi out of the cryptic state until I read it here).

It sounds very much like it makes good sense to supplement with Hydrocortisone for those who test low in Cortisol.

In my experience the harder I push the more I need it. I have a non-prescription form called IsoCort. It's supposed to be standardized for 2mg cortisol. Some days I couldn't get out of bed without it. (especially since starting the ABXi)

Most therapy involves taking up to but not usually more than 20mg per day.

Click here for a treatment protocol

Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

  That statement is from Dr. Stratton, you should interpret it;

  ''I think that if you are treating Cpnii with antimicrobial agents, the vitamin Dii supplementation is a non-issue. In fact, if it were “helping” them, as steroids may do (see attached), it would actually make the Cpn more susceptible to the antimicrobial agents. Take care. ''

 And that was interpretation of pgm, ıt might be true,IMOi.

  "MacKintosh, Stratton seems to suggest that if vitamin Dii helps the Cpnii, it works like a steroid. This is what Marshall calls vit D, an immunosuppressive steroid. If I did understand it correctly, e.g. excess cortisol (a steroid) transforms the Cpn from cryptic forms to replicating forms, and in that form they are more easily killed by abxiii. In this case vit D would have a similar action."

   yılmaz.

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSi (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Hi Garcia,

The quote about Vit D is untrue. It is pure Marshall fiction. Vit D is not immunosuppressive. 
If anything Vitamin D will encourage more Cpn to turn cryptic.

Thanks. That tracks with what I thought but again I never spent any time researching Vitamin D as I had heard that it up regulates one's immune system and that was not my goal.

- Paul

Bio, I have been taking a physiological dose of Hydrocortisone ( 5 mg 4x/day) for over a year now.... it literally is what enabled me to get out of bed.   I previously had tried Isocort but was not strong enough (I used it years ago for minimal support). I also do not have a thyroid (am very familiar with the site you referenced) and believe the CPNi contributed to my thryoid's malfunction.

This illness also caused me to have severe orthostatic hypotension (caused by the adrenal issue) and my saliva cortisol tests showed I was imbalanced -- the hydrocortisone has helped this as well.

But... I do believe taking the hydrocortisone has been a double-edged sword for me in terms of recovery.... I definitely believe it potentiated the CPN in me causing me to go 2 steps forward, 3 steps back on many occasions.   I had several posts here in the past on this topic.

I am just now reaching the point that I do not have a severe Ragland effect (poor man's tilt table test) when my doctor takes my blood pressure (lying, sitting, then standing).  My adrenals appear to be starting to recover, but I still cannot endure sudden adrenal rushes ( like a near miss auto accident type) or I immediately feel like I am going to pass out, even on the cortisol. 

Perhaps being on the cortisol may also be contributing to the fact my CPN titers were still very high in June of this year after being on the protocol 2 years.......Cortef  helped me overcome several issues but I also believe it slowed down my progress due to its effect on CPN. 

JeanneRoz

 

 

JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

Vitamin Di's effect on the immunei system is quite complicated. It upregulates some things and downregulates others; its full effects have yet to be fully mapped. (And even insofar as they have been mapped, I don't know them all.) It's best thought of as a precursor to a chemical messenger molecule (1,25-D) that the immune system uses. Depriving oneself of it is something like trying to make a circuit work by ripping out all the red wires. Yes, you might get lucky, but the odds are against it. So yes, the idea that it is immunosuppressive is Marshall fiction, but it's not purely immunostimulatory, either.

Good Morning BioH you wrote;

It is interesting to note that some segment of CFSii'ers are being helped by long term, low dose Hydrocortisone therapy. If this segment may have Lyme or Cpni could they have found another path besides the ABXii to wellness?

Well for myself I have had Phosphatidyl Serine has been given to me by my MD to normalize my adrenal function.  My diagnostic catigory is that of CFS with bacterial infectionsi confirmed as CPn and Bb (Lyme) per lab specimens, for me combined antibiotic protocol has been my path to my current level of wellness.  Generalizations are difficult to make we all have a variety of subsets of diagnosis involved in our disfunctionality. 

Would be nice to find another way and of course there are many theories out there.  Likely there are many combinations of theories that address those of us with combination situations.   CAPi takes time, discomfort and often deminished functionality for many of the CFSers here, at least initially on the protocol, often we require a multifaceted approach.

For myself, I am in a wellness pattern just now, for myself the CAP was an important part of my treatment plan, but not the only treatment.  My signature highlights as much as the amount of space allowed by the website function the primary supporting treatments that have brought me to my current level of wellness.    We are all somewhat individual puzzles.

Louise

  • CAPi(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFSi
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDNi 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Question for anyone who might know...

 

If one lowered their cortisol levels on purpose, what would the effect on a long-standing, but not terribly troublesome cpni infection?

 

I ask because I've been dealing with a variety of symptoms consistent with CPn for probably 10 years. With the exception of a case of acute transverse myelitis 5 years ago, most of them have been of the "annoying but not majorly life-impacting" variety. Constant sore throat, fibromyalgiai-like symptoms in neck, jaw and trapezius muscles, fatigue, rosaceai, etc.

But this past May, something caused a major shift for the worse. Jaw problems went from annoying to a constant source of pain.  Progress that had been made on neck and upper back pain reverted all the way back, etc. I've been trying to figure out what changed. At the time, I was trying to limit cortisol production by taking Phosphatidal Serine, in order to shed some extra belly fat. This thread has me wondering if lowering cortisol levels allowed the CPn to get a stronger foothold? Additionally, I was taking doses of 200mg of caffeine and ephedrine to speed fat loss. So, Paul's treatment using caffeine pills with ABXi has me wondering if that played a part as well.

 All that said, I guess what triggered it to get a lot worse doesn't matter that much. It did prompt me to really dig in and figure out what's been wrong with me all this years. I started a CAPi in early Oct. Currently I'm taking 200mg Doxyi daily, Azithromycin 250mg MWF and have done one three-day Flagyli pulse. The jaw, throat and neck pain are worse. Biggest impact so far seems to be on the rosaceai on my nose and cheeks. Despite very limited use of the topical meds I normally use to control it, it's down to a very light pink tint rather than angry red. Interestingly for the first couple of weeks, the skin in those areas peeled like a sunburn might.

CAPi started 10/09 - Doxyi 200mg, Azith 250 MWF, 1 Flagyli pulse. Empirical CAP on suspicion of CPni or tick-borne infection. Primary symptoms are chronic sore throat, muscle pain (jaw, neck, trapezius, all on right side), rosaceai, joint pain.

Hi JJ, interesting question.

Its not the phos serine. Phos serine is a pretty benign substance unless you have adrenal insufficiency, which from your mild symptoms I'm guessing you don't.

IMHOi it is certainly the caffeine (not sure about ephedrine, I haven't studied it). I found out early on in my Cpni infection that caffeine was the absolute number one worst thing I could take. Before I started CAPi I had a project to finish and was drinking a lot of tea during that period (as you do). It really potentiated the Cpn and made my infection spread to new areas.

This is also the reason why I believe it works so well in Paul's protocol because it wakes up the cryptic forms and gets them reproducing so they become vulnerable to antibioticsi once more.

Hunter: Don't think - experiment

Hi Garcia,

IMHOi it is certainly the caffeine (not sure about ephedrine, I haven't studied it). I found out early on in my Cpni infection that caffeine was the absolute number one worst thing I could take. Before I started CAPi I had a project to finish and was drinking a lot of tea during that period (as you do). It really potentiated the Cpn and made my infection spread to new areas.

If one assumes that caffeine does in fact induce Cpn into the EBi state, then taking a lot of it without an antibiotic would presumably be a bad thing as infected cells with many intact EB's would undergo apoptosisi and the infection would spread to many other cells. If one assumes that caffeine provides energy to cells (a very reasonable idea, just one I happen to disagree with), then it would promote Cpn growth and be very negative.

Anyway I think we would all agree that ephedrine is likely to increase glucose/ATP availability to cells and be a very negative approach if not taking antibiotics, and possibly negative while taking antibiotics.

Nonetheless in the interest of science I am willing to test this... Does anyone have any methamphetamine they can send me? ;)

- Paul

  JJ and garcia,

 I don't claim that phophatydil serine might be harmfull but I'm not confident about it. I started to take it months ago but stopped it soon, after reading that CPNi uses phosphotidyl serine on the membrane of apoptotic cells as a ''eat me'' signal for long living macrophages so that it could get into macrophage without being realized and replicate freely inside this long living cells. You can see the related article below.

 Cpn WBC P...pdf (452,1 KB)

 yılmaz.

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSi (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Paul you can do your test with an OTC product. May have to take a card off the shelf and take it to the pharmacy desk to get it, but you do not have to have a script. Either Bronkaid or Primetene tabs. Ephedrine Sulfate (25 mg), Guaifenesin (400 mg) in Bronkaid.
CAPi started 10/09 - Doxyi 200mg, Azith 250 MWF, 1 Flagyli pulse. Empirical CAP on suspicion of CPni or tick-borne infection. Primary symptoms are chronic sore throat, muscle pain (jaw, neck, trapezius, all on right side), rosaceai, joint pain.

  I think the line doesn't work, that is the original article.

  Chlamydia pneumoniae Hides inside Apoptotic

Neutrophils to Silently Infect and Propagate in

Macrophages

Jan Rupp1,2*, Lisa Pfleiderer3, Christiane Jugert1, Sonja Moeller1, Matthias Klinger4, Klaus Dalhoff2,

Werner Solbach1, Steffen Stenger3, Tamas Laskay1, Ger van Zandbergen3*

1 Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hygiene, University of Luebeck, Luebeck, Germany, 2 Medical Clinic III, University hospital Schleswig-Holstein, Luebeck, Germany,

3 Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hygiene, University Clinic of Ulm, Ulm, Germany, 4 Institute of Anatomy, University of Luebeck, Luebeck, Germany

Abstract

Background: Intracellulari pathogens have developed elaborate strategies for silent infection of preferred host cells.

Chlamydia pneumoniae is a common pathogen in acute infectionsi of the respiratory tract (e.g. pneumonia) and associated

with chronic lung sequelae in adults and children. Within the lung, alveolar macrophages and polymorph nuclear

neutrophils (PMN) are the first line of defense against bacteria, but also preferred host phagocytes of chlamydiae.

Methodology/Principal Findings: We could show that C. pneumoniae easily infect and hide inside neutrophil granulocytesuntil these cells become apoptotic and are subsequently taken up by macrophages. C. pneumoniae infection of

macrophages via apoptotic PMN results in enhanced replicative activity of chlamydiae when compared to direct infection of

macrophages, which results in persistencei of the pathogen. Inhibition of the apoptotic recognition of C. pneumoniae

infected PMN using PS- masking Annexin A5 significantly lowered the transmission of chlamydial infection to macrophages.

Transfer of apoptotic
C. pneumoniae infected PMN to macrophages resulted in an increased TGF-ß production, whereas

direct infection of macrophages with chlamydiae was characterized by an enhanced TNF-a response.

Conclusions/Significance: Taken together, our data suggest that C. pneumoniae uses neutrophil granulocytes to be silently

taken up by long-lived macrophages, which allows for efficient propagation and immunei protection within the human host.

Citation: Rupp J, Pfleiderer L, Jugert C, Moeller S, Klinger M, et al. (2009) Chlamydia pneumoniae Hides inside Apoptotic Neutrophils to Silently Infect and

Propagate in Macrophages. PLoS ONE 4(6): e6020. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020

Editor: David M. Ojcius, University of California Merced, United States of America

Received March 3, 2009; Accepted May 19, 2009; Published June 23, 2009

Copyright:  2009 Rupp et al. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits

unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.

Funding: This work was supported by the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft (SPP 1131 Ru 1436/2-1, Va 240/2-1) and the Excellence Cluster ‘‘Inflammation at

Interfaces’’ (RA-If, CHIP). The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.

Competing Interests: The authors have declared that no competing interests exist.

* E-mail: jan.rupp@uk-sh.de (JR); Ger.Zandbergen@uniklinik-ulm.de (GvZ)

Introduction

Chlamydia pneumoniae is an obligate intracellulari pathogen that

enters the human body after respiratory infection. Infection

activates airway epithelial cells resulting in a rapid recruitment of

polymorph nuclear neutrophil granulocytes (PMN) [1,2]. Consequently,

in the lung, PMN are among the first leukocytes to

encounter
C. pneumoniae [3]. Importantly, phagocytosed C.pneumoniae are not killed; the ingested bacteria survive and multiply

within PMN [4]. During the later course of the infection, viable

chlamydiae are found inside alveolar macrophages (AM),

bronchial/alveolar epithelial cells, vascular endothelial/smooth

muscle cells and monocytei- derived macrophages (MF) [4–8].

Chlamydiae undergo a biphasic developmental cycle inside an

internalized vesicle termed inclusion. Non dividing elementary

bodies (EBs) change into the dividing and metabolically active

reticulate bodies (RBs), re-differentiate to EBs and finally escape

from the host cell [9]. Productive infection and chlamydial

growth can be analyzed by inclusion morphology and size, but

also by monitoring transcriptional activity of chlamydial genesi

involved in pathogen metabolism and pathogenicity throughout

the developmental cycle [10–12]. Increased production of the

pro-inflammatory cytokinesi IL-1ß and TNF-
a have been

demonstrated as markers of direct host immune responses to

chlamydial infections in phagocytes [13,14], which may result in

intracellular killing of the bacteria.

One possible strategy to implement a productive infection is to

silently infect respective host cells. It has been suggested that

chlamydiae can benefit from a silent uptake resulting in increased

survival and growth [15]. The most extensively studied example of

a silent uptake into phagocytes is the clearance of apoptotic cells

which is a well organized three step process [16]. First, apoptotic

cells release ‘‘find-me’’ signals to recruit phagocytes to the site of

apoptotic death [17]. Second, phagocytes recognize the presence

of phosphatidylserine (PS) termed as ‘‘eat-me’’ signal on the

membrane of apoptotic cells [16]. The final step is an active

suppression of inflammation and immune response and can be

termed as a ‘‘forget me’’ signal. This step is characterized by the

release of anti-inflammatory cytokinei TGF-ß and down-regulation

of the pro-inflammatory cytokine TNF-
a.

In this study we could show, that C. pneumoniae make use of these

silent entry mechanisms to be taken up by monocyte- derived

PLoS ONE | www.plosone.org 1 June 2009 | Volume 4 | Issue 6 | e6020

macrophages or alveolar macrophages via apoptotic PMN. Thus,

C. pneumoniae efficiently infect and replicate inside PMN, which

upon activation recruit monocytic phagocytes. C. pneumoniae

infected PMN then become apoptotic as shown by PS and

TUNEL positivity and are ingested by MF and AM, which secrete

increased amounts of anti-inflammatory TGF-ß.

Results

C. pneumoniae remains transcriptionally active inside

PMN

To determine whether C. pneumoniae survives the uptake by

PMN and remains viable intracellularly, we compared the

infection with productive
C. pneumoniae infection in HEp-2 cells.

Using FACS we could show that 79%62% (n =3) of the HEp-2cells and 83%

67% (n= 3) of the PMN stained C. pneumoniae- LPSi

positive 66 h p.i. (MOI 1), whereas non-infected cells alone stained

negative (Fig. 1A,B). Microscopically, we observed that intracellular

C. pneumoniae inclusions in PMN were morphologically

different, showing multiple, smaller inclusions than in HEp-2 cells

(Fig. 1C,D).

To prove intracellular viability of chlamydiae inside PMN we

analyzed the transcriptional activity of chlamydial genes involved

in pathogen replication and metabolism. Expression of the 16S

rRNA of
C. pneumoniae significantly increased from 3 h p.i. to 66 h

p.i. when compared to the 18S rRNA expression of the host cells,

indicating replication of chlamydiae inside PMN (Fig. 1E,

p = 0.02). As a control, co- incubation of PMN with heat-killed

(HK) chlamydiae did not result in detectable amounts of 16S

rRNA (Fig. 1E). Key factors that indicate intracellular activity of

chlamydiae like the RNA polymerase (rpo) and the pyruvate

kinase (pyk) significantly increased within 66 h after PMN

infection (Fig. 1F, p = 0.01 and p = 0.03, respectively).

C. pneumoniae hides inside phosphatidylserine (PS)-

positive apoptotic PMN

PMN are short living cells. Even though C. pneumoniae infectiondelays apoptosis of PMN, 48%68% of infected PMN become

apoptotic 66 h p.i. [4]. Using Annexin A5 (AnxA5) staining to

detect phosphatidylserine (PS) as an early marker of apoptosis on

the outer cell membrane, we could detect that both non- infected

(
.95%, n = 3) and C. pneumoniae- infected (82%612%, n= 3)

PMN become PS- positive within 66 h (Fig. 2A,B). Additional

staining with PI showed that
C. pneumoniae infection does not

increase the amount of necrotic cells compared to non- infected

PMNs (Fig. 2A,B). To visualize whether
C. pneumoniae- infected

PMN stain positive for PS we performed a double staining using a

FITC- labeled anti-
C. pneumoniae LPS and Alexa568-labeled

AnxA5 mAb (Fig. 2C). Within 66 h p.i. we observed that

86%
66% (n= 3) of C. pneumoniae- positive cells were expressing

PS on the cell surface (Fig. 2C).

To analyze late apoptotic PMNs we further performed the

TUNEL assay which reveals the apoptotic fragmentation of

nuclear DNA. Whereas only 62%
63% (n =3) of the C. pneumoniaeinfected

PMN became TUNEL- positive, more than 80% stained

positive in the non- infected control 66 h p.i. (Fig. 2D,E).

C. pneumoniae infected PMN release MIP-1ß, recruit and

enter macrophages

Macrophages (MF) represent the first line of defense in the lung

and are supposed to clear the lung from bacterial pathogens as

Figure 1. C. pneumoniae survives inside PMN. C. pneumoniae (Cp) infected HEp-2 cells and neutrophils (PMN) were analyzed 66 h p.i. for

intracellular positivity of chlamydial LPS by FACS analysis (A, B; representative experiment out of 3) and fluorescence microscopy (C, D; magnification630

6). To analyze intracellular progeny of C. pneumoniae in PMN we performed real-time RT-PCRs of the 16S rRNA in comparison to host cell 18S

rRNA using the DDct- method for relative quantification. Viable (open bars) but not heat-killed (HK, closed bars) chlamydiae showed a significantincrease in 16S rRNA expression (

E) within 66 h p.i. (p = 0.02; n = 3). Enhanced transcriptional activity of C. pneumoniae inside PMN was proven bydetermining the expression of chlamydial genes pyk (open bars, p = 0.03) and rpoA (closed bars, p = 0.01) mRNA (F; n = 3).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.g001

Apoptosis Driven Infection

PLoS ONE | www.plosone.org 2 June 2009 | Volume 4 | Issue 6 | e6020

well as apoptotic cells. First, we addressed the question whether

MF are recruited by
C. pneumoniae- infected PMN. A screening ofchemotactic proteins revealed that C. pneumoniae- infection of PMN

resulted in an increased production of MIP-1ß as compared to

mock- stimulated PMN (Fig. 3A). Using an in vitro chemotaxisassay we found, that supernatants taken from

C. pneumoniaeinfected

PMN attracted monocytes significantly better when

compared to supernatants taken from mock- stimulated PMN

(Fig. 3B, p= 0.04; n= 3). Having shown that PS- positive apoptotic

PMN harbor viable chlamydiae and subsequently recruit monocytes,

we wondered whether these cells are ingested by monocytederived

macrophages. In a co- culture of PS- positive
C. pneumoniaeinfected

PMN with MF, PMN were rapidly engulfed by MF

(15 min) and could be observed within the MF phagosome by

electron microscopy (Fig. 3C).

PMN passage increases transmission of C. pneumoniae to

macrophages

To follow the intracellular fate of C. pneumoniae in monocytederived

macrophages (MF) and alveolar macrophages (AM) we

used intracellular
C. pneumoniae LPS- staining and FACS

analysis. Whereas only 21%65% (n = 3) of MF stained C.pneumoniae

LPS- positive after direct C. pneumoniae infection (18 h

p.i.), co- incubation of MF with C. pneumoniae- infected apoptotic

PMN resulted in significantly higher amount of C. pneumoniae

LPS- positive MF (65%66%, p = 0.004; n = 3) (Fig. 4A). Thehigher efficacy in C. pneumoniae- infection of MF via apoptotic

PMN was still observed 90 h p.i., showing more than 5-fold

more C. pneumoniae LPS- positive cells compared to the directinfection of MF (75%

65% vs. 14%68%, p=0.004; n=3).

Increased bacterial loadi in MF that were infected through

apoptotic PMN corresponded to larger intracellular
C.pneumoniae inclusions (Fig. 4B) in comparison to directly infected

MF (Fig. 4C).

To bring the PMN passage strategy closer to respiratory C.pneumoniae

infection, we repeated the experiments using purified

alveolar macrophages (AM) from bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL)

fluid. To analyze difference in the infection pattern of AM that

were directly infected with
C. pneumoniae vs. AM that were coincubatedwith C. pneumoniae- infected apoptotic PMN we

calculated the amount of small and large inclusions inside these

cells (Fig. 5A–C). Thus, large inclusions were almost exclusively

observed in AM that were infected by PS- positive
C. pneumoniaeinfectedPMN (6%61.8% vs. 0.560.5%, p = 0.02; n = 3),

whereas the appearance of small inclusions did not differ

between both conditions (Fig. 5A). The same pattern of

intracellular chlamydial inclusions was observed in AM isolated

from
C. pneumoniae- DNA positive BAL fluids of patients with

community-acquired pneumonia, but not in C. pneumoniae- DNA

negative samples (Fig. 5D,E).

Transmission of C. pneumoniae infection from PMN to

macrophages depend on PS

To investigate the mechanisms of C. pneumoniae transfer from

apoptotic PMN to MF we tried to inhibit the uptake of apoptotic

cells by blocking the apoptotic eat me signal PS on infected PMN.

We compared MF that were co- incubated with
C. pneumoniaeinfected

apoptotic PMN with MF that were co- incubated with C.pneumoniae

- infected apoptotic PMN after preincubation with PSbinding

AnxA5. Both types of MF stained positive for C.pneumoniae

-LPS (Fig. 6A,B). However, the C. pneumoniae staining

pattern in MF that were infected in the presence of PS- masking

AnxA5 revealed less and smaller inclusions (Fig. 6B) similar to the

staining we observed after direct infection of macrophages (Fig. 4C

Figure 2. C. pneumoniae hides inside PS- positive PMN. To analyze early and late apoptotic markers, PMN were infected with C. pneumoniae or

left in medium alone. Using Anxa5-fluos and propidium iodide (PI) staining we could show that both non- infected (.95%, A) and C. pneumoniaeinfected(82%

612%, B) PMN become PS- positive within 66 h without significant changes in the amount of PI- positive necrotic cells (representative

experiment out of 3). To visualize whether C. pneumoniae- infected PMN stain positive for PS we performed a double staining using a FITC- labeledanti-

C. pneumoniae LPS mAb and Alexa568-labeled AnxA5 (C). In contrast, late apoptotic cells as determined by TUNEL staining (closed line) weremore often found in the medium control than in C. pneumoniae- infected PMN (D, E; representative experiment out of 3).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.g002

Apoptosis Driven Infection

PLoS ONE | www.plosone.org 3 June 2009 | Volume 4 | Issue 6 | e6020

and Fig. 5B). We found that AnxA5 significantly reduced the

number of large inclusions in MF, indicative for reduced bacterial

load and replicative activity (Fig. 6C, p= 0.02). Using an AnxA5-

based MACS separation system we were able to separate PSpositive

C. pneumoniae- infected PMN from PS- negative cells,

showing that only co- incubation with PS- positive PMN resulted

in transfer of
C. pneumoniae infection to MF (data not shown).

Furthermore, expression of the chlamydial 16S rRNA in MF was

decreased more than 2-fold when the PMN uptake was blocked by

AnxA5 (Fig. 6D, n =3). Reduced bacterial load in MF preincubated

with AnxA5 was accompanied by reduced transcriptional

activity of the rpo and pyk gene indicative for impaired

growth and progeny of chlamydiae (Fig. 6E, n =3).

PS- dependent uptake of C. pneumoniae infected PMN

silences MF immune response

We wondered whether the uptake of apoptotic C. pneumoniaeinfected

PMN would induce activation or silencing of MF, and

therefore analyzed the expression of the pro- inflammatory and

anti- inflammatory cytokines TNF-
a and TGF-ß. We observed a

significant reduction of TNF-a release from MF after uptake of C.pneumoniae

- infected apoptotic PMN as compared to direct

infection with C. pneumoniae (Fig. 7A, p= 0.01). In contrast, PMNthat were not- infected by

C. pneumoniae became secondarily

necrotic after 3 days, and the uptake of these late apoptotic PMN

resulted in enhanced TNF-
a release when compared to nonstimulated

macrophages alone (data not shown). In contrast, the

uptake of
C. pneumoniae- infected apoptotic PMN significantly

increased the production of TGF-ß as compared to direct infection

with
C. pneumoniae (Fig. 7B, p= 0.02). Blocking PS on apoptotic

PMN by AnxA5 pre- incubation reduced the production of TGF-ß

but without reaching statistical significance (n= 3).

Discussion

The life span of infectious C. pneumoniae elementary bodies (EB)

is limited outside a human host cell. The pathogen strongly

depends on the host cell environment for progeny and systemic

dissemination. Alveolar macrophages (AM) are the pre-dominant

cells in the human lung and represent the first line of defense in

respiratory infections. Upon bacterial challenge the amount of

PMN increases dramatically in the lung, accounting for more than

80% of the cells in acute respiratory tract infections. Whereas

direct infection of macrophages results in clearance of the

pathogen, uptake of
C. pneumoniae by PMN has been shown to

promote intracellular survival [4]. Nevertheless, although C.pneumoniae

is frequently found inside PMN in early respiratory

infections, the infection of macrophages seems crucial for systemic

dissemination of the pathogen [1,18].
C. pneumoniae survive and

replicate inside PMN as shown by the transcriptional activity data

and increased LPS expression, however, we did not succeed to

transmit chlamydial infection from PMN to epithelial cells, which

are primarily used for culture of chlamydiae. We found that in the

presence of PMN lysates, containing high amounts of degrading

enzymes from disrupted granules, chlamydial growth was

precluded, even when epithelial cells were directly infected with

C. pneumoniae (data not shown). Importantly, there is good evidence

from in vivo data that the influx of PMN in acute lung infectionwith

C. pneumoniae favors chlamydial growth and results in

increased bacterial load in mice [19]. In contrast, lack of PMN

recruitment in MyD88-deficient mice resulted in lower bacterial

load of infected lungs, although the underlying mechanisms for

enhanced chlamydial progeny and dissemination in the presence

of PMN remained to be explained [19]. Gueinzius et al. could

previously show, that PMN might serve as a vector for systemic
C.pneumoniae dissemination as the infection can be transmitted to

vascular endothelial cells [20]. However, mechanisms of cell to cell

transfer of obligate intracellular bacteria are largely unknown, but

it has been speculated that chlamydiae might profit from hiding

inside apoptotic cells [15]. First evidence supporting this

hypothesis came up recently as it has been demonstrated that
C.pneumoniae can be transferred from UV-killed, PS-positive mouse

embryonic fibroblasts to mouse DCs [21].

Blood monocytes and monocyte- derived macrophages are

supposed to be the vector for systemic dissemination of
C.

pneumoniae throughout the human body. In up to 25% of healthyblood donors

C. pneumoniae can be detected in circulating

monocytes by PCR or culture [22]. Blood monocytes have been

Figure 3. Increased MIP-1ß release in C. pneumoniae infected

PMN. PMN were infected with C. pneumoniae (closed circles) or mockinfected with HEp-2 lysates (open circles) (

A). Increased secretion of

MIP-1ß was observed in the supernatants of C. pneumoniae- infectedPMN at the given time points by ELISA (

A). The chemotactic index

(specific migration/migration towards medium) indicates that monocytes

are significantly better attracted by supernatants taken from
C.pneumoniae- infected PMN than mock- infected control cells (B,

p = 0.04; n = 3). Using transmission electron microscopy we could show

that C. pneumoniae- infected PMN are engulfed by monocyte- derivedmacrophages (

C). Arrows indicate the phagosomal membrane (PM) of

the macrophage; containing a complete apoptotic PMN with condensed

nucleus (N) (bar equals 1
mm, magnification 60006).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.g003

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Figure 4. PMN passage increases chlamydial transmission to macrophages. C. pneumoniae alone (open bars) or C. pneumoniae- infected

PMN (closed bars, 66 h p.i.) were co incubated with autologous macrophages (MF) at ratio of 1:1 (A–C). The amount of C. pneumoniae- positive (C.pneumoniae

LPS- staining) MF increased significantly after 18 and 90 h when MF were co incubated with C. pneumoniae- infected apoptotic PMN (A,

p = 0.004), but not upon direct C. pneumoniae infection. Fluorescence microscopy revealed that co incubation of MF with C. pneumoniae- infectedapoptotic PMN for 90 h resulted in multiple large inclusions (

B) whereas directly infected MF showed smaller ‘‘persistent-like’’ inclusions (C;

magnification 6306).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.g004

Figure 5. Alveolar macrophages harbor intracellular chlamydiae in vivo. Alveolar macrophages (AM) isolated from BAL fluids of C.pneumoniae- DNA negative patients were either directly infected with C. pneumoniae (open bars) or co incubated with C. pneumoniae infected PMN

at a ratio of 1:1 (closed bars, 66 h p.i.). The percentage of AM harvesting large and small inclusions were calculated 90 h p.i. by counting a minimum

of 200 cells/slide using a FITC- labeled anti- C. pneumoniae LPS- staining protocol (A). Significantly more large chlamydial inclusions were detected inAM co incubated with

C. pneumoniae- infected apoptotic PMN than in directly infected AM (A–C, p = 0.02). In addition, we analyzed AM from BAL

fluids of patients suffering from community-acquired pneumonia (CAP) by fluorescence microscopy (D, E; representative experiment out of 4),showing both small, persistent-like inclusions (downward arrows) and large inclusions (upward arrows) in

C. pneumoniae- DNA positive BAL (D) butnot in C. pneumoniae- DNA negative BAL (E).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.g005

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shown to harbor viable chlamydiae [23] which allow the

transmission of the infection to endothelial or smooth muscle cells

in vitro [24,25]. Of clinical importance is the fact, that most of the

chlamydiae enter a persistent-like state in monocytes that is

refractory to current antibiotic treatment strategies [26,27]. When

compared to the infection of epithelial cells, growth of
C.pneumoniae is strongly restricted in monocytes and monocytederived

macrophages upon direct infection [24,28].

The data presented here underline the importance for C.pneumoniae

to be taken up by PMN to increase viability and

virulence in macrophages. Sheltered by the ‘‘PMN envelope’’ and

recognized by an apoptotic ‘‘eat-me signal’’
C. pneumoniae is

ingested by MF and AM without being visible for the innate

immune system.

The physiological clearance of tissue granulocytes is normally

silent, but can under certain situations shift to become a proinflammatory

event. For example, apoptotic cells that escape

phagocytosis, disintegrate in a pro-inflammatory process called

secondary necrosisi. Importantly, uptake of non- infected late

apoptotic PMN by MF did not result in ‘‘silencing’’ of the

macrophage immune response. This is in line with findings from

Afonso et al. showing decreased intracellular survival of

Leishmania amazonensis when late apoptotic PMN were

uptaken [29]. Recent studies demonstrated that also viruses

and parasites misuse the apoptotic ‘‘eat-me signal’’ PS for

productive infection [30,31]. In general, phosphatidylserine (PS)

on the outer membrane of apoptotic cells is the key element for

induction of an anti-inflammatory environment. Therefore the

mere presence of apoptotic cells at the site of infection is

beneficial during the transfer of obligate intracellular pathogens

from one to the next host cell. Blocking experiments with AnxA5

revealed that PS expression on apoptotic
C. pneumoniae infected

PMN is important for the productive transfer of not only C.pneumoniae

but also C. trachomatis L2 (Fig. S1) from PMN into

macrophages.

Regarding acute
C. pneumoniae infections of the lower respiratory

tract in humans, it seems to be a footrace between direct clearance

of
C. pneumoniae by AM and ingestion of C. pneumoniae by PMN

which might increase chlamydial pathogenicity. Whether direct

clearance of
C. pneumoniae by MF results in complete eradication of

the pathogen or promotes persistence of chlamydiae in the lung

still has to be determined. Morphological analysis of C. pneumoniae

inclusions in AM from C. pneumoniae- DNA positive BAL fluids

suggests that direct and indirect ingestion of chlamydiae may

occur
in vivo.These data show that C. pneumoniae infection of MF results in

increased pathogen activity and silenced immune response when

transferred by apoptotic PMN. However in acute infection, the

innate and acquired immune mechanisms will be turned on by

direct host-pathogen interactions in order to limit infection to the

lungs. Thus, pro- inflammatory immune responses will be

generated by direct contact of chlamydial TLR- ligands with its

specific receptors [19,32] and MHC class I-restricted lysis of

infected cells by CD8(
+) CTL will occur to prevent systemic

dissemination of the pathogen [33].

We demonstrated that
C. pneumoniae remain transcriptionally

active inside PMN and induce the release of macrophage

attracting MIP-1ß.
C. pneumoniae hiding inside apoptotic PMN

were phagocytosed by MF and developed multiple large inclusions

inside MF. In contrast, direct
C. pneumoniae infection of MF

resulted in a persistent-like infection. Efficient uptake and

intracellular development of
C. pneumoniae in MF via apoptotic

PMN was dependent on the expression of phosphatidylserine on

infected cells. Our data suggest that
C. pneumoniae misuses central

pathways of apoptotic cell clearance to survive inside human cells.

Further studies are needed to elucidate the functional role of this

Figure 6. PS- dependent transmission of C. pneumoniae infection. Blocking of phosphatidylserine (PS) expression on C. pneumoniae- infected

PMN by preincubation with recombinant AnxA5 significantly reduced the uptake of chlamydiae (A, B) and the formation of large inclusions (C,p = 0.02; n = 3) as shown by fluorescence microscopy with FITC- labeled anti-

C. pneumoniae LPS- staining (representative experiment out of 3,

magnification 6306) and calculation of a minimum of 200 cells/slide (C). Replicative activity of C. pneumoniae, indicated by the amount of 16S rRNA(

D), pyk (open bars) and rpo (closed bars) mRNA expression compared to host cell 18S rRNA expression (E), decreased in MF when C. pneumoniaeinfected

PMN were preincubated with AnxA5 (representative experiment out of 3).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.g006

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mechanism in the dissemination of chlamydiae from the lung to

the circulation in humans after acute respiratory infection.

Materials and Methods

Bacterial strain, cell preparation and infection

experiments

The C. pneumoniae strain CV-6, used in this study, was isolated

from a coronary artery plaque and continuously propagated on

HEp-2 cells as described [34].

PMN and monocyte- derived macrophages (MF) were generated

from buffy coat blood as described previously [4,35]. Alveolar

macrophages (AM) were isolated from bronchoalveolar lavage

(BAL) fluid [8] from healthy volunteers (
C. pneumoniae- DNA

negative) and patients with acute C. pneumoniae infection as provenby

C. pneumoniae- DNA positive PCR results from BAL (n =4).

Cells were cultured for 1 to 4 days at 37uC in a humidifiedatmosphere (5% CO

2) in RPMI 1640 medium, containing 50 mM

2-mercaptoethanol, 2 mM L-glutamine, 10 mM HEPES complemented

with 10% FCS (all Sigma-Aldrich, Munich, Germany).

PMN (1
6107/ml) were co- incubated with C. pneumoniae at a

ratio of 1:1 (MOI 1), equivalent amounts of heat-killed C.pneumoniae

, or with mock infected HEp-2 cell lysates as negative

controls. 3 hours after co incubation PMN were separated from

extracellular
C. pneumoniae by several washing and centrifugationsteps at 2006g. MF or AM were co- incubated with C. pneumoniaeinfected

PMN (66 h p.i.) at a PMN to macrophage ratio of 1:1, or

directly infected with C. pneumoniae with a MOI 1. Blockingexperiments for phosphatidylserine specific uptake of

C. pneumoniae-

infected PMN were performed with recombinant Annexin A5

(AnxA5; Responsif GmbH, Erlangen Germany) at a concentration

of 5 mg/16106 PMN.

Immunohistochemistry, Western blot analysis and

electron microscopy of infected cells

For C. pneumoniae- specific staining the cells were cytocentrifuged,

fixed in methanol and stained using a FITC-conjugated

anti-
C. pneumoniae mAb (clone RR402, IgG3, Dako, Hamburg,

Germany) or a FITC-conjugated isotype matched control mAb

(Dako), followed by counterstaining with Evans blue. Inclusion

morphology was analyzed under a Zeiss Axioskop-2
H fluorescent

microscope fitted with HRS- AxiocamH and Axiovision software4.5

H. Percentages of C. pneumoniae- LPS positivity was calculated by

counting a minimum of 200 cells/slide. For structure preservation

electron microscopy, MF were co- incubated for 15 min with
C.pneumoniae - infected PMN at a ratio of 1:1. Cells were fixed and

examined with a Philips EM 400 electron microscope as described

[35].

Flow cytometry analysis

Intracellular C. pneumoniae LPS was quantified using FACS

analysis. Cells were permeabilized using the Cytofix/Cytoperm

Plus Kit (BD Biosciences, Heidelberg, Germany) as recommended

by the manufacturer and stained with a FITC-conjugated anti-
C.pneumoniae mAb or an isotype matched control (both Dako).

Annexin A5 (AnxA5), propidium iodide and TUNEL staining

were performed as described [4]. In addition we stained cells with

Alexa568-conjugated AnxA5 followed by an intracellular
C.

pneumoniae LPS staining as described above. To maintain AnxA5binding to PS the intracellular

C. pneumoniae staining was

performed in the presence of 5 mM CaCl2.

Real-Time PCR

Total RNA isolation, generation of cDNA and PCR amplification

was performed as described [36]. The expression of the

chlamydial 16S rRNA (forward [TCG CCT GGG AAT AAG

AGA GA]; reverse [AAT GCT GAC TTG GGG TTG AG]),

rpoA (forward [GCAATCGAAGGGGTTATTGA]; reverse

[TGATCTGGGTTAACG GCTTC]), pyk (forward [AGC

TTG CGG ATG GAA TTA TG]; reverse [ATG CAG TTT

CCC CTG ACA AC]), and 18S rRNA (forward [TCA AGA

ACG AAA GTC GGA GG], reverse [GGA CAT CTA AGG

GCA TCA CA]) was analyzed by relative quantification using the

DDct- method as shown before [36]. Changes in the mRNA

expression profile over time were calculated by comparing values

for 66 h p.i. to values for 3 h p.i. which were set to 1 for clear

presentation.

Cytokine measurement and chemotaxis assay

Cells were cultured and supernatants were collected after given

time points and stored at -20
uC until cytokine determination.MIP-1ß, TNF-a and TGF-ß was measured using ELISA (R&D

Systems, Wiesbaden, Germany) according to the manufacturer’s

instructions (duplicate assays for at least 3 independent experiments).

Chemotaxis assays were performed with freshly isolated

monocytes in 24-well Transwell plates (Costar, Bodenheim,

Germany) as described before [35]. The chemotactic index (CI)

was calculated by dividing the number of migrated cells towards

supernatants taken from
C. pneumoniae- infected PMN, divided by

the number of cells migrated in medium alone.

Figure 7. Silencing of MF immune response to chlamydial

infection by PMN passage.
Immune responses of directly C.

pneumoniae- infected MF were analyzed in comparison to MF eitherco incubated with

C. pneumoniae- infected PMN (66 h p.i.) or with C.pneumoniae- infected PMN after precinubation with recombinant

AnxA5. Within 18 h p.i. supernatants of MF were collected to determine

total amounts of TNF-a (A) and TGF-ß (B) by ELISA. Direct infection ofMF with

C. pneumoniae significantly increased TNF-a production (A,p = 0.01; n = 3), whereas the uptake of C. pneumoniae- infected

apoptotic PMN was characterized by a significant up regulation of

TGF-ß in MF (
B, p = 0.02; n = 3).

doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.g007

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Statistical analysis

Data are depicted as mean6standard error of the mean.

Statistical significance of the results was analyzed with Student’s t

test and Microsoft Excel 8.0
H software. Results were considered

statistically significant at p,0.05 (*) and p,0.005 (**).

Supporting Information

Figure S1 PS- dependent transmission of C. trachomatis infection.

Blocking of phosphatidylserine (PS) expression on C. trachomatis(L2)

infected PMN by preincubation with recombinant AnxA5

significantly reduced the uptake of chlamydiae (n= 4, p = 0.005).

Percentages of
C. trachomatis - LPS positivity was calculated by

counting a minimum of 200 cells/slide stained with FITC- labeled

anti- chlamydial - LPS staining.

Found at: doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0006020.s001 (0.64 MB TIF)

Acknowledgments

The authors thank Matthias Maass (University Hospital Salzburg, Austria)

for providing us with the CV-6 strain.

Author Contributions

Conceived and designed the experiments: JR GvZ. Performed the

experiments: LP CJ SM MK KD TL. Analyzed the data: JR MK KD

WS SS TL GvZ. Wrote the paper: JR GvZ. Critical discussion of the

manuscript: WS.

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KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MSi (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

JeanneRoz, it sounds like you believe cortisol has increased your burden of CPNi or at least defeated your ABXi treatment.

JJ is wondering if lowering his cortisol increased his CPN burden.

If cortisol indeed does bring CPN out of the cryptic formi (as has been theorized with Pyruvate and Glucose here already) it should make it easier for an adqueate dose of ABXi to kill it? (Comments please)

The proper amount of cortisol may be an issue. Too much might be worse than too little.

I am very cortisol sensitive and there are many supplementsi that will bring down my cortisol levels that I can't take (PS is one, others are L-Glutamine, AL-Carnitine, Beta-Sitisterols, there are others).

JJ unless your cortisol levels are high (have you done a 24 hour saliva?) I wouldn't be trying to reduce cortisol.

 

Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

biohazard, I was trying to lower cortisol on presumption that it was what was keeping me from being able to cut belly fat.  I haven't taken PS (or anything else for cortisol control) since my symptoms all exploded in May.
CAPi started 10/09 - Doxyi 200mg, Azith 250 MWF, 1 Flagyli pulse. Empirical CAP on suspicion of CPni or tick-borne infection. Primary symptoms are chronic sore throat, muscle pain (jaw, neck, trapezius, all on right side), rosaceai, joint pain.

I was pointing out that you and jeanne seems to be at odds. You believe a lowering of cortisol increased your symptoms wheereas Jeanne believes adding cortisol defeated her abxi treatment.

I'm trying to fgure out whether cortisol helps or harms. I think it helps when not in excess. When they have patients supplementsi it's just to restore to low-normal levels.

Doxyi 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFSi since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

Bio.. I did not intend to convey that taking the Cortef  has defeated my ABXi treatment, I continued on ABXi and the Cortef and am still on it.  I only believe the Cortef has been one of the reasons it has taken me so long to reach an upward turn. 

What appeared to be happening with me was I kept hitting a point of (what I believed were) diminishing returns...  I was also questioning if I was becoming resistant to Azith or Doxyi.  It seemed the Cortef was potentiating the CPNi making it difficult for me to stay on top of killing it.

Since I have started full pulses (Tinii) it appears that this is no longer happening but I don't really know what's going on at the cellular level ;0 

Here is an article (it's also on our site): Effect of hydrocortisone succinate on growth of Chlamydia pneumoniae in vitro  link

http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/34/10/2379

Also, this is an excerpt from a post by LifeonIce: "Hydrocortisone increases number of inclusions inside the cells, which leads to persistenceii of the bacteria. Presence of the hydrocortisone does not affect activity of azithromycin, erythromycin and doxycycline." I did gain weight from 1) the cortisol imbalance; 2) being pretty much bedridden, inactive for a long time; and 3) from taking the Cortef.  For me personally my whole HPA axis situation has been a difficult  one to figure out in this CPN treatment  due to my not having a thyroid.  I  had to take the Cortef because my saliva test showed my phase of adrenal exhaustion as severe.  I have taken  PS before --it can be good to balance or even out one's cortisol's levels.  Mine were exhausted ...  an analology:  stepping on the car's gas pedal  -- you can't go because you  have no gas. .  As sick as this treatment has made me, I've just kept plodding along.  Since my Ragland affect and orthostatic hypotension are improving, I will assume the Cortef is helping  and my adrenals may be healing as the CPN is being cleared.   Also, since I am now pulsing regularly and FINALLY starting to see improvment , the ABX appears to be staying ahead of the CPN.   The CPN/Cortisol issue has been a difficult balance for me in this treatment.......... JeanneRoz

 

 

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JeanneRoz ~ DXi'd w/ CPNi 4/2007; 6/07 -"officially" dx'd w/CFIDSi/FM; also: HHV6, EBVi, IBSi-C, 100 Doxyi:BIDi; 500 mg Biaxin BIDi; Tindamax Pulses, B12 shots, ERFA Dessicated Thyroid,Cortef, Iodoral 25 mg, Vit D-6,000 uni

JJ - I too have had worsening neck and upper shoulder pain since starting the capi.  I've been going to physical therapy for 2 1/2 months but it is just as bad.  The FMSi pain is never ending, even with Biofreeze, lidocaine patches and phy therapy.  It must mean that we are getting to the infection.  But how long will it take to stop hurting I wonder?  I'm going to see if I can find a Myofacial release therapist.  If it works I'll post about it.  Also, I think Flagyli cream is prescribed for Rosaceai which would make sense that it helps yours.

FMSi/CFS 1995. tinnitusi, ibsi, sinusitis, EBVi, NACi 2400mg, valtrex, cortef, armour, doxy, biaxin, tinii, vita c 5 - 10,000 daily 

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