27 Apr 2018
Author
R
Title

Test Results

Body

Hi, I am new here. I have just received test results showing a negative IgG and a positive IgM for CPN. The IgM is a titer of 1:80 (negative cut off is 1:10). I have CFS-ME and an SCL-70 marker for potential scleroderma with lung involvement. Not going to list all my diagnises and symptoms right now but they would of course fit with a CPN diagnosis, but also could fit lyme or the possibly viral (EBV and HHV-6 are potential probems as well).  

Comments

BatGirl

25 Jul 2014 08:54 pm

I think the IgG is for the antibodies of CPn indicating a past infection (and possible cryptic states of CPn currently) if results were positivve, and IgM indicates an active infection far along if it is positive, with a positive IgA one just starting up...

We find consultations, we learn tricks with which we deceive ourselves, but the essential thing - the way - we do not find. Listen to the river...

R

26 Jul 2014 03:17 am

Thank you Batgirl!  When you say far along, does that always or sometimes indicate "chronic" infection?  Could a positive IgM only be transient? and not need antibiotic intervention or only a short course? I don't understand the negative IgG if the infection has been around a while.  I can't find consolidated into on testing. If you or someone knows of a resource that I can read, I would appreciate that. I am getting there may be a PCR that can be ordered from Vanderbilt?? and I am reading that many people are seronegative so going by symptoms. I have so many potential infections (EBV, HHV-6 and possibly fungal (I have tested positive with sinus PCR for a very nasty fungus and I would not be surprised if this fungus is not in my lungs as well), that it's difficult to tell my symptoms what is causing my problems.Thank you so much!!

BatGirl

26 Jul 2014 07:05 pm

My IgG was 1:512, pretty freaking high, but both the IgM/IgA were negative.As far as ...not need antibiotic intervention or only a short course... these tests are for CPn bacteria, which IgG positive would be CPn antibodies present, resulting from prior CPn infecton that may include present cryptic/EB versions of the CPn bacteria - the stuff hard to get rid of.I guess positive on IgM would mean you just haven't gotten to the point of fighting the infection for a long enough time to develop a need for antibodies yet... also, some blood types react differently (take longer, react to another mode, etc.) to organic structures (antigens/lectins) - i'm O+, which have robust immune systems, universal blood doner and all that. I may have just had a longer infection (i'm 60) mixed with an immune system that kept the infection at bay most of the time (MS began 2007). That results in the antibodies, but since no MS flare up for awhile (since 2011), good chance only the cryptic form is still around... hence IgG pos., and  IgM/IgA neg. And lets not forget enviromental influences (i'm veggie, etc.)

We find consultations, we learn tricks with which we deceive ourselves, but the essential thing - the way - we do not find. Listen to the river...

R

26 Jul 2014 09:53 pm

Thank you, Batgirl.My family doctor said she doesn't know how to treat. She's confused because I don't sound like I have pneunomia or an infection... my lungs sound clear. I can't find a protocol for early infection. I really don't know what to make of that and the results. I am taking NAC. That's it. Do you have any idea where I can find reference to treating acute infection.. or what looks like one?

MacKintosh

27 Jul 2014 12:01 am

Refer your physician to our site.  Direct her to the Physician Page: http://www.cpnhelp.org/?q=node/70Also, give her this link: http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment1.htmlThis is a link to Dr. David Wheldon's site, where he clearly and simply explains the disease, the treatment of it and the rationale for the treatment he advocates.  Tell your doctor not to freak out because the site refers to MS.  Tell her to substitute "cpn infection" every time she sees "MS".  Killing cpn bacteria requires the same treatment, no matter what mysterious 'autoimmune disease' it manifests itself as.  It could be rosacea, arthritis, MS, chronic fatigue, irritable bowel, etc.We don't advocate different levels of treatment based on what might or might not be 'acute' infection. CPn must be treated by a long-term combined antibiotic protocol.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

BatGirl

27 Jul 2014 08:13 am

"... I don't sound like I have pneunomia or an infection... my lungs sound clear..."if the infection was ONLY in the repratory, then it would be not so damaging... and would have the symptoms you note, but -CPn causes it's worst damage, and is most difficult to eradicate, when it crosses the blood-brain barrier and begins messing with the CNS! It's this bacteria load in the brain that gets our immune system wacky, causing 'MS', and the other similar AMA declared 'diseases'... so, the symptoms we're looking at is not congestion, but central nervous system damage.Taking NAC only without ABx's could be not so great an idea in the long term. The NAC is constantly making the cryptic/EB form of the CPn bacteria wakeup and try to infect something (while providing in some instances an ability to just destroy the cryptic/EB, but a few of the buggers will still infect...). If one has a robust unimpaired immune system, theoretically I suppost letting the NAC open and your own natural antibidies destroy the resulting infection could work, but would be a bit on the edge - risky. Adding ABx's would be safer...

We find consultations, we learn tricks with which we deceive ourselves, but the essential thing - the way - we do not find. Listen to the river...

R

5 Aug 2014 02:02 am

Thank you, Batgirl!I definitely have a systemic condition. I have CFS/ME, babesia (positive titer in past), lyme (clinical diagnosis based on symptoms and babesia), EBV reactivation, positive IgG for HHV-6 (need follow up labs), PEM with low anerobic threshold, POTS, MCAS, EDS (possibly worse due to whatever is wrong with me), and so on....  I didn't realize that the NAC could wake up the cryptic/EB form.. I'll research after I post this.. not clear if cryptic is the EB form or the cyst like form. You all use NAC as a sort of "challenge" diagnosis, but this should only last a short run for about how long? Is it possibly that NAC can trigger die off then there are rest periods, then die off again? Kind of like a roller coaster? About how long before one gets a die off reaction? I took for about a week 1200 mg before feeling like I had a flu. Has anyone had any experience with Michael Powell? Since I may have viral issues along with mold illness (which it seems he addresses to some extent going by his website), I am wondering if I need someone like him and wonder if he is the only one like him... Thank you so much for bearing with my questions! 

Norman Yarvin

5 Aug 2014 05:22 am

The cryptic form is very different from the EB form.  EBs are the infective unit, small and protected by a hard shell, which go out and colonize new cells.  The cryptic form is an RB (the growing, replicating form, living inside a cell), but which has temporarily stopped its growth.  (Most of the scientific literature calls it the "persistent" form.)

R

5 Aug 2014 06:15 pm

Thank you, Norman Yarvin. I am reading about RBs changing to EB form when exposed to caffeine? and NAC? It gets more confusing as I read. I thought initially that EBs were only "babies" in a sense. Also did not realize that cryptic form (which I think may be similar to lyme cystic form) is an RB form. Thought that RB was only for active infective form.  

Norman Yarvin

6 Aug 2014 05:28 am

RBs change to EB form at the end of the life cycle, when they have replicated a lot inside the cell and there are something like a hundred of them; then they break the cell open and emerge to infect new cells.The caffeine business is Paul's theory, which the last I heard is unproven.

25 Jul 2014
R