MediTest
Submitted by Jim K on Sat, 2009-02-21 15:44

Red has organized his on-going look at the wide ranging impact of Vitamin D into book form for us. His posts had grown so numerous on the subject that I didn't want them scattered and lost in the huge inventory of posts Cpnhelp has become! We will have it instantly available in a top menu link (when I get to connecting it). Since book pages are organized so as to exclude comments (unless they have been attached from prior forums with pre-existing comments) you can note your comments here.

Red

 Sorry for all the disruption on the board while I was adding this today!    Unfortunately the book posts also show up in the recent posts list.    I'm running out of steam today and still have some work to do on this, but you can get to the full book from the following link:http://www.cpnhelp.org/vitamin_d_1If you see any errors or obvious omissions, please let me know through this thread...Thanks! 

Treatment for Rosacea

  • CAP:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NAC:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

Wonderful!!!!!!! This should be published and available in every dermatologists office.....as if that will ever happen. But it would save alot of people years of pain, and lots of money.

rosaceai : to

Well, this makes sense now.  At first I thought it might be D-mania! Tongue out

NAC 2.4g, Zith 250mg/MWF, mino 200mg, Tini 5day/1g/5 pulses, ValcyteSupplements, CFIDS/FMS, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBS, Sec Addisons Don't believe everything you think!  

Red, Thanks for your persistence geared to making a difference in bringing forth all the scattered research that supports the ever increasing awareness that Vitamin D is a major contrubutor to chronic diseases of a variety of manifestations.   You have persisted despite contrary older opinions voiced here and many have begun to see the light so to speak.  Over the past two years I have increased my Vitamin 800-1000IU/day with multi supplement to now 10,000IU.  The 4000-6000IU/day level barely brought my levels out of the insufficient levels.  My increase to 10,000IU 4 months ago has brought me to 68 ng/mL, I have a bit of a way to go to meet my MD's target goal for me of 100ng/mL.  I will be retesting in the Spring and after reading much of the research that you have put me in touch with I feel on top of the information.  I am fortunate to have an MD that is on top of this topic as well.  Keep your additions coming your work is well appreciated and does make a difference.  Sometimes it takes personal sorrows to inspire great works.  Your gathering this wealth of information and rational arguements to the use of higher doses of Vit D3 supplemention is truely a labor of love.Thanks for your work and sharing it here for easier assimilation.Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
Red

Lol, Garcia!

Treatment for Rosacea

  • CAP:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NAC:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

Red, this academic disertation is just amazing.  I will provide the link that is in your page that I am refering to; http://acta.uta.fi/pdf/978-951-44-7547-4.pdfMakes me glad that I am on Vit D3 10,000IU per day.  My hubby is on 4000IU.  Will get his testing done in the Spring and see if he needs to up his level to get into the pharmacetical dosage catigory.  I have just begun to scratch the surface of the data that you are voluntarily choosing to share here.   Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise- that reference certainly puts the nail in the coffin for anyone thinking they will benefit from D starvation. Could really FU your nervous system!

I dont know if youve read the new studies from the marshall-gang:

  • Editors note: see my comments below-- interested readers can find these papers at the MP website www dot autoimunity research dot org (Jim K)
  •  

    No I have not. I have just recieved a newsletter link from Dr Mercola.com  Are You Sure You’re Getting Enough Vitamin D? http://products.mercola.com/vitamin-d-spray/?source=nl   he shares a video clip about the need for Vitamin D3 and is introducing an oral spray form of Vitamin D3.  What I find particularly interesting about the talk is that he addresses the variations of blood levels in individuals based on a number of factors, some still unknown.   He does supports natural skin exposure to UV rays for those that have year round accessiblility to the sun or even safe tanning booths, which I have avoided for the most part.  I will say that I am supplementing with Carlson brand fish oil in the 2000IU capsules, 5 per day and I have been tested.  Mercola speaks to the rationale for testing your blood levels if you dose orally.  Personally, I am doing well with 10,000IU VitD3 per day dosing and have tested periodically in the past 2 years.More Good Information on Vitamin D3 (easy read for layperson).  Also contains very good information on testing.  http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-5816.htmlCloudo has previously written in relation to VitD3 previously here at CPnhelp three months ago, the following posts are located here  http://www.cpnhelp.org/the_vitamin_d_page;Cloudo I have included your first comment on that thread below and my response to you.  There were other comments made by you and lots of comments already shared by others here.  Hope you find your desired treatment for your MS.Submitted by Cloudo on Thu, 2008-11-27 18:02.hi there, im new here, and the reason i joined is because i came across youre vitamin di debate here, searching for answers regarding this confusing topic, MPi vs Wheldon Protocol.. I understand you have youre opinions about vitamin D, that the findings in all studies say theres a correlation. But having read quite a bit on the MP sites, im somewhat indoctrinated by the "alternate hypotesis" which i dont see much of here in youre discussion. By that i mean, what if the correlation does not mean the d-levels make the disease, but the disease that makes the d-level come out low/high?? Im just asking, i know all studies seem to be in favor of vitamin-d, but i have yet to see one that takes this into account. And consensus is not synonymous with fact. Also i'd like an agrument that goes against the statement marshall gives about rats and humans not being comparable regarding the VDR receptor, which if so, would make most studies bogus? Cloudo, you seem to be continuing the previous conversation, thought that folks would appreciate the history that you have shared.Here is my previous comment to you;Submitted by Louise on Mon, 2009-01-12 12:45.Well Cloudo, Good to see you back to continue the thread. I would sure appreciate seeing what you are up to for treatment protocolsi in a signature.I do think that testing is now more available than it was when they used mercury to treat syphillis Wink.  And science is more complex.  Sorry you are having a decline in health whatever treatment protocol or none that you are on.  Hope you do well with whatever methodology you choose for yourself.  Louise The complete thread from which I copied these comments is located at;  http://www.cpnhelp.org/the_vitamin_d_page for those that want to review that thread and comments to Cloudo that have been previously written.

    • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
    • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
    • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
    • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
    • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

    Cloudo, Have you found your MS treatment of choice for yourself yet?

    • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
    • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
    • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
    • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
    • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

    thanks louise:)I find it very odd that one takes conclutions of studies over the raw data, which can be interpreted in many directions. To me there is no evidence whatsoever that vitamin D is the miracle it is claimed to be, only assumptions. Conclutions say: "indicate a probable relationship" or "shows a certein correlation" or "our findings strongly indicates implications for future research" and so on.. Never does any vitamin-D study provide much more than assumptions that might as well have been completely different. Im a layman of course, so I might just be an "indoctrinated" loonie falling for the wild theories of trevor marshall, but hey, medical history is full of insane events - no reason this couldnt be one of them. Like handwashing at hospitals and the crazy syphilis-treatment ;)Don't you think the alternate hypothesis is relevant to consider? and, yes im sticking to the MP for now, from all my reading it seems to me like the most scientifically based and logical treatment, and ive been reading alot outside the mp-sites too. Been on the protocol for three months now, and doing well:)

    Pgy, There you go again, deleting a comment on this particular thread regarding this topic.   I was rather interested in the postion that you shared and also the link that you shared for reference.  I regret that I did not capture it before you deleted it. 

    • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
    • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
    • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
    • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
    • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

    Thanks Red for your efforts to consolidate all this great information. As for the misguided Marshall fans,they will eventually find out they are on the wrong path. Hopefully not too late--when cancer and other maladies have taken away the quality of their lives. There is one Primal Rule in this world--you cannot go against Mother Nature and live to tell about it. She designed us to live outside in the sunshine. There is no denying that. That's why we have vitamin D receptors. DUH!!!!!Raven

    Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

    Raven you said what I wanted to say in a most concise way regarding sunshine, thanks!

    • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
    • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
    • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
    • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
    • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

    Raven your post says it all - I love it!!  ("DUH!!!" LOL!)Kelly

    Diagnosed FMS Feb '07.  2x/day: 600 mg NAC, 100 mg Doxy, 500 mg Amoxicillin, 2000 iu Vit. D.  450 mg Valcyte.  250 mg Azi M/W/F.  500 mg 375 mg Flagyl pulses every 3-4 weeks.  Started CAP June '07. 

    Fred, If I've done the math right, I take more than double the 'upper limit' they recommend. Doing just fine, though.  Wink

    The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

    Personally, I think the post by Cloudo on this thread (probably anywhere on this site) is very inappropriate. It only adds to the search engine information for that clan.   These are not "new studies."  They are "theories" at best and I believe most of the ideas or theories from "the marshall gang" are wrong and harmful; even life threatening. I have a question if anyone knows the answer regarding the University and Med College info in those papers... What is the protocol for using the names of these schools to give them credibility?  Is it simply having attended those schools?  Because that is simply the case although it misleads one to think those papers are backed by or endorsed by those schools when that is not the case.  

    NAC 2.4g, Zith 250mg/MWF, mino 200mg, Tini 5day/1g/5 pulses, ValcyteSupplements, CFIDS/FMS, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBS, Sec Addisons Don't believe everything you think!  

    Raven, Unfortunately, the misguided M fans are being led off the cliff like lemmings.  The cancer and maladies are being quashed and down played from that group.  And some of the folks suffering due to it are still in denial of the cause of their maladies and cancers.  Frown

    NAC 2.4g, Zith 250mg/MWF, mino 200mg, Tini 5day/1g/5 pulses, ValcyteSupplements, CFIDS/FMS, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBS, Sec Addisons Don't believe everything you think!  

    I should think contacting those schools and alerting them that their attribution is being misused could do the trick. Then, it's their choice if they want to pursue the individual for the abuse.

    The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

    Reenie- I was not comfortable with Cloudo's misattribution either, nor with the additional and incorrect blanket dismissal of the huge bulk of Vitamin D research as "conclutions of studies over the raw data." The raw data? Give me a break. If you look at the D research literature in total, instead of cherrypicking studies or pieces of a study, it is not simply correlative research which can be interpreted differently. The hard molecular science is there as well. They are very proud of these "studies" as he calls them, note none of these are actual generators of "raw data" but just more interpretations based on their conviction about molecular modeling rather than actual data... they are proud to actually have some kind of journal publications. They think this gives more credibility than actual research, since they don't have any data to offer other than theory. I'm a firm believer in letting people read for themselves, but I'm not a fan of giving search engine credibility by linking to things in this way. I will probably edit the post to remove the links and let people interested look them up for themselves. 

    im so sorry for having posted those links, and for misattributed them as studies - but seriously, what did you think my intentions where? you see the name marshall and you go completely ape? whats up? Isnt this a website of an experimental treatment, just like the marshall-protocol sites? or is it some sort of anti-marshall, strictly pro-D site? youre responses make me sad, since both protocols are ment for the same thing and are both experimental - you should be humble to that fact..  but sure, delete my posts and ban me from the forum - its dangerous to be lead into the horrific info from the evil marshallians.. :P

    "..its dangerous to be lead into the horrific info from the evil marshallians"They are both experimental, but more and more studies are showing that lack of vitamin D can lead to a multitude of cancers.  Therefore a protocol that calls for a reduction in D can in fact be dangerous, based on these studies.Kelly

    Diagnosed FMS Feb '07.  2x/day: 600 mg NAC, 100 mg Doxy, 500 mg Amoxicillin, 2000 iu Vit. D.  450 mg Valcyte.  250 mg Azi M/W/F.  500 mg 375 mg Flagyl pulses every 3-4 weeks.  Started CAP June '07. 

    Do you think its ok to neglect or suppress an alternate view/theory, as a part of a whole body of research, just because some sources assume it might be leading to cancers? Have you even considered that d-deficiency might not be causative but a consequence? Show me one article that excludes the possibility of low d levels being consequense of disease rather than cause, pleaseThis whole issue boils down to, we dont know, even if you claim to "know". suppression of alternate views arent very constructive - no matter what - a person reading an article from marshall and co, has a choice in disregarding the science just like you do, the same way I choose to do the mp instead of the cpn, based on my own decition. Im not barging in here trying to debate which protocol is the better, I have my understanding based on my reading, you have yours, wouldnt it be more constructive to communicate? I find it curious that you rise above the fact that you dont have the complete answer, and seem to be wanting to "protect" people from reading certain litterature that doesent ressonate with youre personal views... I just noticed you edited my post, thanks, lets hope marshall is dead wrong, and you are dead right and hope you save someone from cance

    There are a lot of sources that indicate it may lead to cancer, not just some.  And again as was pointed out we are meant to - as in built to - have more vitamin d - not less, so common sense should also play into decisions here.   We're also built to eat more raw fruits and vegatables and less processed foods than we do in general.  And we also really aren't even meant to drink milk past infancy.  I think a lot of health problems result from just not following the basics of what our bodies were really designed for.Kelly

    Diagnosed FMS Feb '07.  2x/day: 600 mg NAC, 100 mg Doxy, 500 mg Amoxicillin, 2000 iu Vit. D.  450 mg Valcyte.  250 mg Azi M/W/F.  500 mg 375 mg Flagyl pulses every 3-4 weeks.  Started CAP June '07.