Pro's...Would You Please Check Out my Supps/ Med Schedule ?
Hi Everyone!
I have been a patient of Dr. Powell's since January. (Treating Cpni/ Fibromyalgiai) As time goes on; my treatment plan has become more complicated... I'd REALLY appreciate anyone's input on my supplement/ medication schedule! Just when I think I have it all worked out; I read something which necessitates a change in the timing on certain supps, meds, etc.
I've read & reread my Pharmacy handouts, Dr. P's handouts & other sources re: the timing of taking the oodles of pills I ingest each day!
I am posting my current schedule in hopes that you who are more experienced & knowledgeable can give me pointers if I'm off-base on any timing or interactions.
Thank you so much for your help! Here goes...Updated Version! 
Upon waking: INHi
30 minutes later/ With breakfast: Zanaflex, Baclofen, Trental, Prevacid (if extra dose needed), B5, Vit C, NACi, Magnesium Glycinate, Horny Goat Weed, Zinc, Thistlyn Pro, Niaspan, Oregano Oil, Olive Leaf
8:00 A.M.: Pangestyme (Digestive Enzyme)
10:00 A.M. (at least 2 hours after above): Charcoal
Lunch:(1 P.M.): Zanaflex, Baclofen, Trental, (Flagyli), Vit C, Flax Oil, Thistlyn Pro, Garlic, Magnesium Glycinate
2:00 P.M.: Pangestyme
5 P.M.: Zanaflex, Vit C, F.to F. Enfusion mixture, B Complex
Dinner: (7 P.M.): Trental, Niaspan, L-Arginine, NAC, Magnesium Glycinate, Ashwagandha, B6, Zinc, Oregano Oil, Olive Leaf
8 P.M.: Pangestyme
9 P.M.: Zanaflex, Baclofen, Klonopin, Prevacid, VitC, Valerian, Thistlyn Pro, Calcium/ VitD, FiberSmart (if needed)
Before Bed: 5HTP (decreasing), Melatonini, Probiotic
I also do B12 injections 3 times a week & a Magnesium injection once a week. I take Diflucan as needed & am supposed to do Nizoral Nasal Spray 3-4 times a day. ( Yeast/ Fungal suppression.)
I appreciate any input/ help you can give this newbie! Also...I'd like to take more Probiotics, but have learned that they need to be taken 6 hours away from any antibiotic? Any ideas on how I could fit it more Probiotics into my schedule?! I guess the only days I'm really limited on taking the Probiotics are on Flagyl days...Otherwise, I could take them in the afternoon & evening.
Thanks so much!
Annie
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Hi Annie
You wouldn't want my advice. I have MSi - just stopped by to say hello. I have a feeling CFSi/Powell treatment is very different. Maybe someone who is smarter will stop in.
Rica
Ignorance is voluntary bad luck. Lauritz S. A true Viking
If you come to a fork in the road, take it. Yogi Berra
3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan In for the duration.
Hi Rica,
Thank you for saying "hello"! Are you taking totally different meds & supplementsi? I guess what I'm worried about is taking some things that aren't supposed to be taken together or near each other. An example would be that I read that Pangestyme (Digestive, Pancreatic Enzyme) should not be taken within 2 hours of an antacid. Because I take Prevacid, a stomach med; I shouldn't take these 2 together.
I was hoping that someone here was knowledgable about supplement & medication interactions. I received some instruction from Dr. Powell's handouts, but it has become more complicated as I add supps & meds along the way!
Thanks for answering my post.
I hope that you are improving with your treatment.
Annie
Annie - I can't help with the med mix, but I can tell you to start paying attention to the conditions that cause you to be ON those meds. The abxi treatment should address your stomach problems, reflux probably, any irritable bowel stuff, sinusitis and more. You will have to closely monitor the need for the other meds as you wipe out the cpni infection, as that seems to be causing so many other physical ailments beyond MS and CFSi. First, yay, you'll be better. Second, you won't have to worry about mixing your meds/abxi/supplementsi, because you probably won't need as much or maybe ANY of the meds you've become accustomed to taking for your various ailments. Jim or David or Marie should be able to advise you on the items you shouldn't mix.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
Annie- You have this worked out better than I do! I'm don't try the 30 minutes after breakfast for the Niaspan, Oregano Oil, Olive Leaf, just do it with breakfast. I also tend to do probiotics with bedtime stuff, as seems to have time to sit and implant during slower parastalsis (my theory anyway). Your schedule seems a good one to me.
On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpni in CFSi/FMSi since December 2004.
CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral
Hi MacKintosh & Jim!
Thanks SO much for your replies...I certainly am hoping to be able to drop some meds as I improve with the protocol. I've only been on Dr.P's treatment since January. I've been doing the supplementsi, NACi, very low doses of INHi (I reacted MAJORLY to even 1/4 tab every other day!) & just now added the Flagyli pulses.
Already, I have experienced some reduction in my overall pain levels. My chronic Gastritis actually improved to the point where I stopped my Prevacid for about a month! (The longest I've been able to be off of it in 5 years!) Unfortunately, when I started the INH, Trental & Niaspan/ Ibuprofen; my stomach/ Esophagus flared up again BIGtime...I think it was taking the Ibuprofen to counteract the Niaspan flushes that really did me in! Thankfully, I was able to stop the Ibuprofen & no longer get the itchy, red Niaspan flushes. Back on the Prevacid I went to heal some major Esophageal irritation. I'm feeling lots better now.
Anyway, eventually I hope to be able to reduce my Rx's for pain, stomach & sinuses...Meanwhile, I need to keep waging the war on this nasty Cpni!
Jim...I'm glad that you didn't find any big problems in my routine! The reason I take the Niaspan & others 30 minutes after breakfast is because the Niaspan is not supposed to be taken with hot liquids/ foods.(To minimize flush) I have my one cup of coffee & oatmeal for breakfast! Now that I'm not getting the flushes anymore; I suppose I could experiment to see if taking the Niaspan with breakfast would be OK.
I'm also confused about the Oregano Oil & Olive Leaf...In one of my books it says to take them on an empty stomach. I'm not sure that is accurate as the bottles say to take with food!
Have you heard the "rule" about not taking the Probiotics within 6 hours of an antibiotic? That's why I put it in the middle of the day when I'm taking the Flagyl at dinnertime. But when I'm NOT taking the Flagyl; I could do the nighttime dose of Probiotic.
Thanks again for your input. I appreciate it very much! Thanks also for this site. It's been helpful to me as I learn about Cpn & our treatments. (Which quite honestly freak me out most of the time!)
Annie
That is what I have been doing for awhile and don't seem to have any problems.
200mg doxyi daily, 500 zithromax mwf,flagyli 1000 m-fri.rifampin 2x daily,chloestryramine 2x daily
I found a probiotic from Jarrow which is enteric coated and doesn't require refridgeration. Enteric coated means it's protected from stomach acid, so you can take it with food! Makes for easier choices. I've also found Threelac, a pricey but for me really effective anti-candida probiotic, to work really well-- better than even the oregano oil. You are supposed to take it with food. You still need the Jarrowdophilus or such as Threelac doesn't implant, just eats yeast.
On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpni in CFSi/FMSi since December 2004.
CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral
It's probably best to ditch the 5-HTP. See this series of articles by Steve Harris, from my collection, for the reason why:
http://yarchive.net/med/5-htp.html
Goodness! Great review of biochemistry of serotonin there NOrman! Wow!
It brings to mind as you read that how incredibly interactive the body is. Is it any wonder those people in the trials of the drug for MSi anad RAi had those problems that almost did them in last week? Bless them. ANd the real wonder is that there is not more problems as these folks ( traditional medical research) continue to manipulte and change our systems based on the theory that MS is autoimmune.
Marie
Lee,
Are you saying that the Oregano & Olive Leaf need to be taken 2 hours before or after the antibioticsi? Thanks for clarifying & for your reply.
Jim,
Thanks for the Probiotic tips...That's an area where I continue to become puzzled by different people's input! I was under the impression that high quality Probiotics are always the refrigerated type. When I was last at Dr.Powell's office; I purchased some Probiotic "beads" there (tiny, little buggers!) which do not require refrigeration! I was surprised they sold this type. I've also been told to switch Probiotic brands every so often...Hmm...Too confusing for my Fibro brain right now! I've also heard Threelac is good stuff, but are you saying it isn't sufficient all on it's own?
Wow! Ditch the 5 HTP?! Interesting...My Holistic Dr., who has her own Herbal Pharmacy on site, is the one who originally recommended the 5 HTP for sleep. One thing that jumped out at me recently was reading my Pharmacy printout on INHi. Under Drug Interactions, it lists "serotonin-type drugs". Then at my last appt. with Michael, he raised the possibility of the 5HTP not being effective or actually being bad... I believe it had something to do with the "Kynurenine Pathway", which is mind-boggling to me when he pulls out the detailed schematic diagram! (BAD flashbacks to College Chemistry/ Physiology!) Maybe he was trying to explain the same concept as you, Norman?
Well, looks like I had better wean myself off the 5HTP! BTW, forgive my ignorance, but who is Dr. Steve Harris, Norman? Thanks for the info/ replies!
Marie,
Thanks also for your comments...What drug trial are you referring to for MSi & RA?
Annie
Annie- Okay, just one more comment. Yes, Threelac is intended to kill yeast-- highly yeast consuming bacteria-- but they do not implant in the intestine. You need to supplement with other multiflora probiotics. The pearls are commonly used and, I think, are acidophilus only. I like a probiotic that includes more than one form of good bacteria as the intestines are a complex ecosystem. I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point. Just get going in treatment. Ass the brain fog lifts you can get picky about your bacteria!
As for the non-refridge kind: i read a consumer reports type study that actually showed grocery store yoghurt (I can't remember the brand) as having more acidophilus than all that pricey stuff we all buy, refridged or not! Go figure.
The best thing for my "chronic candida" has actually been... the antibiotic protocol. As it turned out, i had a lot of gut Cpni, probably a poorly functioning gut immunei system from this as well, and some candida. All the chronic stuff I thought was yeast was actually Cpn, and my reactions now to antiyeast agents are quite mild and readily controllable (periodic use of Threelac). And I treated "candida" for years as part of my chronic fatigue, never really getting on top of it. Now I know why.
On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpn in CFSi/FMSi since December 2004.
CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral
The best thing for my "chronic candida" has actually been... the antibiotic protocol.
That is all that can be hoped for at this point, one grudging convert at a time. I am going to start into one of my periodic tirades now...
<rant>
There is no such disease as candida. In my opinion it is a myth that was invented by a guy trying to sell books. And because the cause and effects seemed to fit the facts, it has somehow become accepted as truth and a whole insane industry has sprung up around this.
So what does actually happen. Well people get a significant Cpni infection in their GI tract which may cause problems often associated with candida. Or people may have a smaller infection and begin taking antibioticsi and see these types of symptoms flare up. However as people here have noted time and time again, these symptoms abate with continued treatment with or without the use of probiotics.
Anyway if taking probiotics makes you feel better, they are certainly not going to harm you so continue. But I am not buying into this and I think people are just wasting their money.
</rant>
- Paul
"Very Innnnnteresting....." (From "Laugh In" TV show of yesteryear...)
Jim & Paul,
I find your theory very interesting! I definitely have chronic gut issues. (From top to bottom!) When I had a Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis test done through Great Smokies Lab; it only showed +1 Candida albicans, which I was told was no biggie. The report categorizes it as a "Potential Pathogen".
However...I took Dr. Teitelbaum's Candida test in his book "From Fatigued To Fantastic", & scored very high for a Candida problem.
But, I wouldn't be surprised if my symptoms aren't caused by the Cpni!...When I first started this protocol, my stomach calmed down so much that I was able to get off my Prevacid! This didn't last because of irritation from Ibuprofen taken with the Niaspan, but...I am certainly hoping to be able to get off that nasty Prevacid ASAP as my treatment progresses. I've never felt right about being on a PPI (Proton Pump Inhibitor) drug longterm, but my "conventional" Dr's have offerred no other solution...
Now I could get into a rant about GI specialists! The last one I visited in S.F. told me that I had "severe IBSi" & it/ my Chronic Gastritis are stress-related to my FM. His "solution"? Long-term (longer than a year) Psychotherapy to get to the bottom of my stress & anxiety!!!(Mind you, he said this after no physical or psychological exam.) My regular Dr's had a good laugh over that one! They said, "Don't waste your money on therapy!" Honestly, I will be SO happy if this Cpn protocol brings healing to my body after years of trying MANY other things!
So, I will not stress out over the Probiotic issue. Thanks for your input.
Jim, I too read that Consumers' Report article! I thought that either they are not up on the latest medical scoop or we ARE wasting a lot of $ on expensive Probiotics! Who ARE we to believe?!!!
Annie
This is probably the drug trial being referred to:
http://www.blacktriangle.org/blog/?p=1308
(If the tech language is too much for you, skip down to the description by one of the patients -- the lucky guy who got the placebo.)
Steve Harris is a geriatrician and medical researcher; his most impressive work has been on advanced resuscitation techniques. That 5-HTP might cause the same heart problems as fen-phen did (especially when taken with B6, as you're doing) is just his guess, but it looks like a good one. I don't think the chemistry he describes involves any kynurenines.
Yes that is the trial. You can read more about it in the thisisms.com general forum under the heading "did anyone post this" (i believe that's its name) posted by melody. There are several news bites on there about it. Really bad news! All those people, healthy paid volunteers, in the mst terrible of organ failure. Last I heard still 2 in intensive care still not known of going to recover! Man!
marie
Isn't it a pain trying to take things on an empty stomach? Some things you might want to consider are adding another Magnesium. Glycinate is REALLY good, but look into Mag. Citrate, which is also very highly absorbable. I was on massive amounts of Glycinate for several years and then my doc recmmended a product called Calm which is Citrate. From that alone I herxed in a major way. Was quite surprising and found through research that it does happen, when the immunes system runs better with the help of mag.
Also CoQ10 can be critical when dealing with intracllular organisms. They tend to sap the energy out of the mitochondria which is what produces energy inside of cells. CoQ10 is the fuel needed to make that energy. In chronic fatigue it is recommended that we take 300-400 mgs a day. It's expensive, but to me well worth it because when I encreased my intake to that dosage, I definetly noticed a major increase in my energy level.
Then one last thing. Chronic infection tends to set up a situation called hypercoagulation or ISAC syndrome. It is well known in the CFSi/FM circles and is gaining more attention the the Lyme world. I would say the principles are the same in this world, because we are again talking intracellulari and chronic. There are phamacuetical treatments as well as natural enzymes that can be used to correct this situation.
I am giving a link to a website where info on ALL of this stuff will we found in abundance.
http://cure2003.conforums.com/index.cgi
Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpni. CAPi since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NACi,BHRT, MethyB12 FIRi Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath
Morning Raven and Jim. In my case I know for certain so far, that I am dealing with 2 Mycoplasmas and Lyme. Neither of these are truly "bacteria" either. Mycoplasma have no cell wall so can't really be classified as bacteria, and Lyme is is a sphirochete and not really a bacteria either, probably closer to a parasite since they literally feed off of us.
REST OF POST MOVED BY ADMIN- SEE 'RELATED' IN FORUMS.Reply to mini; Hi all- This thread is getting both long and into a whole other disccussion. I think there's a place for it, but it wasn't made yet. I've made it, and posted my reply to Mini (and peripherally to Sarah) there:
http://www.cpnhelp.org/?q=reply_to_mini
On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpn in CFSi/FMSi since December 2004.
CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dxi: 25+yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BIDi, restarted Tinii pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral
Thank you All,
I woke up this morning & was excited to see the many new responses to my post! But...I agree that it has gotten a little off-base & quite overwhelming for me at this point!
I certainly appreciate ALL the information shared here. I am in agreement that Cpni is probably NOT the only problem our bodies face with these misunderstood conditions.
Thank you for the ideas about Magnesium Citrate & CoQ10. I have taken the CoQ10 in the past; but it is just too expensive for me right now. Maybe when I can eliminate some of what I'm taking; I'll try it again. Quite honestly, taking 75 pills each day is freaking me out plenty!
I've heard of the Hypercoagulation or ISAC syndrome. I also suspect I may have chronic Lyme. But for right now; this new Cpn protocol is all I can concentrate on & pursue treatment for! Good luck to you on whatever paths you are taking to bring healing & a better quality of life.
I've updated my schedule & hopefully it is a good one! I might try switching the Magnesium Glycinate to the Citrate to see if it makes any difference.
Thanks, Jim, for creating the other post to address coexisting conditions & treatments.
Hugs,
Annie