Are these elementary bodies?

Ali
Submitted by Ali on Mon, 2008-06-30 20:21
Ali

This is a dark-field slide of my own blood.  Are the speckles on the red blood cells elementary bodies?  Could they be anything else.  I have positive serology for chlamydia, rickettsia, mycoplasma.  Looking forward to any comments.

 

Melbourne, Australia.  CFS (?) ten years.  Jadin protocol,  Marshall protocol.  continue to deteriorate

    ill 10 years with CFS Positive serology for Rickettsia, mycoplasma, Chlamydia, EBV,CMV.  Severe neurological difficulties.  Wheelchair/bed bound. Malaise, chest pain, spasm fingers and toes, dizzy, tremor. Done Jadin Protocol 2 years, Marshall Protoco

To my uneducated eye, they look exactly like the slide from the Stratton research - there are just more of them!

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Yikes! To my uneducated eye as well. Dr. Stratton has noted that the number of EB's on red blood cells was a good indicator of severity of Cpn infection, so if these are EB's you've got a doozy.

 

CAP for Cpn 11/04. Dx: 25+yrs CFS & FMS. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BID, restarted Tini pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Ali

Thanks for your replies.  If these are in fact e.b's - if I know with some certainty -I can start treatment with confidence.  Any comment David- I'd really appreciate your opinion.

Ali

    ill 10 years with CFS Positive serology for Rickettsia, mycoplasma, Chlamydia, EBV,CMV.  Severe neurological difficulties.  Wheelchair/bed bound. Malaise, chest pain, spasm fingers and toes, dizzy, tremor. Done Jadin Protocol 2 years, Marshall Protoco
Ali

Thanks for your replies.  If these are in fact e.b's - if I know with some certainty -I can start treatment with confidence.  Any comment David- I'd really appreciate your opinion.

Ali

    ill 10 years with CFS Positive serology for Rickettsia, mycoplasma, Chlamydia, EBV,CMV.  Severe neurological difficulties.  Wheelchair/bed bound. Malaise, chest pain, spasm fingers and toes, dizzy, tremor. Done Jadin Protocol 2 years, Marshall Protoco

The relative size of each of these looks smaller, to me, than the ones in the EB picture on the Cpnhelp home page. The EB picture has the EBs being about a sixth of the diameter of a red blood cell, whereas these are more like a fifteenth the diameter. Also, these things are more clustered together: they are all on one side of each red blood cell, whereas the EB picture has the EBs pretty randomly distributed on each red blood cell. So I'd bet against these being EBs. (I don't know what else they might be, but I know little about interpreting such pictures.)

I'm with Norman on this one in that whatever we're looking at here is alot smaller than the EBs in the slide on the home page.  Also, whatever it is, it's more uniform in each red blood cell. 

I wonder if it could be something like mycoplasma infection?  I have NO clue what that looks like so I'm only guessing/thinking out loud here.  Undecided

NAC 2.4g, Zith 250mg/MWF, mino 200mg, Tini 5day/1g/5 pulses, Valcyte
Supplements, CFIDS/FMS, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBS, Sec Addisons

Don't believe everything you think!  
Ali

Thanks - I noticed the specks were smaller, but thought it could be the difference in illumination of the two slides.  It wouldbe a huge relief to identify these things - either way they're not normal  - any microbiologists out there?

 

Ali

    ill 10 years with CFS Positive serology for Rickettsia, mycoplasma, Chlamydia, EBV,CMV.  Severe neurological difficulties.  Wheelchair/bed bound. Malaise, chest pain, spasm fingers and toes, dizzy, tremor. Done Jadin Protocol 2 years, Marshall Protoco

I ran this by an expert who says, "They look to small for elementary bodies. Moreover, they appear to be intracellular. Notice that the edges are not "bumpy" like they are with the
elementary bodies in the attached image." So these are not likely to be EB's from this more expert opinion. Compare your picture with that of EB's we have on the home page.

 

 

CAP for Cpn 11/04. Dx: 25+yrs CFS & FMS. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BID, restarted Tini pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

The artist in me thought they could maybe just be artifactual, to start with they are all on the same side of each red blood cell............Sarah

An Itinerary in Light and Shadow

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Tantalisingly there is one part cell at the bottom left of the picture that looks similar to the home page picture of EBs.   But that is the only one that seems to fit...  What the others are I do not know.

Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxy, Azi MWF, metro pulse.

Ali

Thank you Jim for taking the trouble to discuss this and let me know.  If they are intracellular is a CAP still appropriate? Sarah, yes they all do seem to be on the same side - Michelle, thanks for your observation.  A stupid question, I'm sure, but can Cpn be diagnosed by dark-field microscopy, assuming e.b.'s ould be present and would show up?  I'm also wondering whether Rickettsia have e.b.'s - my doctor tells me "chlamydia are Rickettsial germs".

Ali

    ill 10 years with CFS Positive serology for Rickettsia, mycoplasma, Chlamydia, EBV,CMV.  Severe neurological difficulties.  Wheelchair/bed bound. Malaise, chest pain, spasm fingers and toes, dizzy, tremor. Done Jadin Protocol 2 years, Marshall Protoco
D W

I have never worked with cpn as a pathogen (few microbiologists have) but I do recall from my dark-ground microscopy days that prismatic artifacts abound. One pointer to the presence of artifacts is a tendency to form at similar compass-points or otherwise partially on the objects in the field of vision. Dark-ground systems are notoriously difficult to set up exactly centrally.

 (We used dark-ground microscopy at Oxford to visualize spirochaetes in the chancres of persons with primary syphilis. A diagnosis in five minutes.)

D W - [Myalgia and hypertension (typically 155/95.) Began (2003) taking doxycycline and macrolide and later adding metronidazole. No medication now. Morning BP typically 110/75]

 

Ali, it doesn't matter if these are EBs, artifacts or something else.  I was never tested until I had started treatment.  We only did it out of interest because David knew that it was not an easy thing to test for.  In this the proof of the pudding is in the eating and looking at your signature, I would say it is definitely the right thing to do. because CAP antibiotics will do far more for you than the Jadin and Marshall protocols.  Do you have a doctor who will prescribe?  If not, you might be better to buy online from a reputable establishment.  Then maybe, once you start showing improvement, the doc will start prescribing.............Sarah

An Itinerary in Light and Shadow

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Ali - No idea about your dark field slides. 

Regardless, an empiric trial of antibiotics to see if you can gain any health improvement benefits has very little downside. 

Best of luck in your quest for health!

Daisy - Husband on CAP 5/07.  Husband died from Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Secondary to the Infusion of Novantrone.  Ie - the treatment with the conventional MS drugs killed him.

Daisy on her own CAP 11/2012. 

Ali

Thank you David, Sarah , Daisy.  I'll stop obsessing about this slide now.  I've just ordered my NAC and have Zithromax and Doxy and I'm set to go.

Ali

    ill 10 years with CFS Positive serology for Rickettsia, mycoplasma, Chlamydia, EBV,CMV.  Severe neurological difficulties.  Wheelchair/bed bound. Malaise, chest pain, spasm fingers and toes, dizzy, tremor. Done Jadin Protocol 2 years, Marshall Protoco

Good for you, Ali!!..........Sarah

An Itinerary in Light and Shadow

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

these could be mycoplasma pneumoniae.....Mycoplasma's are intracellular organisms that are extremely small, have pleomorphic characteristics (change shape and structure), lack rigid and distinctive cell walls and have unusual growth cycles and growth requirements (a semi-hibernation state for prolonged periods). This makes testing for Mycoplasma's much harder and more complicated than testing for all other bacteria.

Mphs, TN. CFS, hypoT (Hashi), adrenal fatigue, hormonal inbalance. right arm neuropathy-getting better. cpn, myco, EBV, CMV, HHV-6. Cap began in 6/07. NAC 2400mg, mino 100mg bid, biaxin 500mg bid. cytomel, flagyl bid continuously.