Nasty reaction with pyruvate:stomach ache, vomiting. Taking short pyruvate break.

Submitted by 4dogday on Tue, 2008-10-21 01:02

It's been a little over a week since i started taking pyruvate  The glands in my throat started to get more sore and today they started getting worse.  After I ate dinner this evening, I started to suddenly become sick.  My throat hurts to swallow and I have a fever blister.  My stomach aches very badly, like it did the second day I took pyruvate (only then it didn't last as long and wasn't as intense).  I was so sick to my stomach this evening that I finally made myself vomit because I new I would anyway, and then I couldn't stop for a few minutes.  This is the first time I have thrown up since starting CAP..   My eyes hurt to see light, I have a bad headache, I'm chilling, and I am aching miserably around my neck, upper back, arms, chest, etc.  Earlier my knee joints hurt.  Mostly I feel like I have the flu, and could tolerate it except for the terrible stomach ache, which I am not familiar with and don't know how to treat for it. 

I took two Emergen C packets, 4 charcoal tablets and pepto bismol-  no relief.  If I don't lie down flat I start to feel I will vomit again, and I guess I'm going to .......just made it in time to the toilet after I ran to take 5 more charcoal tabs hoping to feel better....but then more vomiting and a little dry heaving, and there went the charcoal tabs into the toilet.  Bad timing.  After heaving, I can sit up now, so I will continue.  Right before, 3/4 of both of my hands started tingling extremely and I felt very anxious.  I had that terrible feeling like I was starting to burn up and catch on fire and go all tingly and light headed.  I also had a very panicky feeling that I might attribute to some acute anxiety, except for that a little while after I cleared my stomach, and then later my bowels (thanks emergenC) the anxiety just went away, so I know it was anxiety brought on by the "toxins" or porphyria or whatever, and not due to me panicking about feeling bad.  If I was panicking about feeling bad, I'd still be doing it.      Now I just still hurt terribly, even under my arms, and my stomach still hurts a lot as well as my chest, but the bad nausea is gone for now, but not completely.

I'm visiting my sister, who I'm trying to get started on CAP.  Went to her rheumatoid doc with her today, who isn't much interested in CAP, but not against it either.  He feels her primary doc or the infectious disease doc that she is scheduled to go to are more appropriate for treating her.  I think the rheumatoid doc is comfortable in his box, and doesn't have the interest to step out of it, as I think learning about CAP would help him help his patients and it seems surprising  to me that someone in his specialty is not curious.  I guess I gave my sister an idea of what the reactions are like, anyway.  Fortunately, I think she sees it more as confirmation that CAP works, and does not seem afraid of the reactions, as she says that she can handle flu symptoms.  I'm afraid her main problems will be cost of supps and consistent compliance to protocol.  I think  she feels bad enough that she is not really thinking straight or feeling like dealing with very much which makes it harder for someone to get it together and follow through.  We printed out some info from this site for doctors and ordered a few supps, but she says she can't concentrate on anything and feels too bad to even read anything for more than 10 minutes at a time, so I imagine that she won't be doing a lot of research on CAP on her own.  She is taking NAC and trying to find a doc and ordering supps, though, so there is hope.

Ok, so I think pyruvate is more effective than I thought.  After quite a long time of being on bacteriostats, with some continuing slow reactions, the pyruvate has taken me to the next phase.  I thought it wouldn't happen until Flagyl.  I honestly wasn't sure if the pyruvate would do much.  Unless i've caught a terrible flu bug or food poisoning, it IS doing a LOT.  And neither I nor my sister think it is the flu or food poisoning.  Now I have a small glimpse of what you some of you are talking about.  I'm going to take it easy tonight.  Not taking the pyruvate, because I have to drive from Ohio to Tennessee soon, and if this gets worse, it won't happen.  I will take my doxy and Biaxin and supps. 

It seems that the pyruvate surprised me and may be doing more than I'd imagined and may help take down some of my CPn load before starting Flagyl or tini.   It continues to confirm that i may have a heavy CPn load and that I'm going to have "fun" with this phase of the CAP. 

I was wondering if flagyl might not bother me because I don't usually get nauseated easily.  I guess tonight blows my theory and wishful thinking, as I imagine that if pyruvate can do this, flagyl will.

Thank you all who warned me to take pyruvate BEFORE starting flagyl, and to not take them together.  You probably saved me from excessive unnecessary misery. 

I still can't guarantee it is pyruvate causing all this, but I can't imagine what else it would be.  I just can't figure out why my stomach hurts, as this is something new, starting with the second dose of pyruvate, then stopping and coming back hard about 9 or 10 days later (today). 

If anyone else has had any similar reactions to pyruvate, I'd be interested in reading your experiences.  I have been reading along but brain fog has made me forget alot, and I really don't remember many people mentioning it, at least not nearly as much as flagyl. 

If anyone has advice on what to do for badly cramping stomach, please reply.  I searched stomach cramps, but didn't find what I was looking for.

Need to go take my abx now.  Have been delaying until I had some of the worst of this under control.  Don't want to let any more of the bugs to come out of hiding tonight.  No more pyruvate tonight, or until I get back home perhaps.





Reve- The stomach cramps, nausea, anxiety and headach sound to me like a strong porphyria episode, while the chills I usually attribute to LPS endotoxin reaction from bacterial kill. I think the charcoal you are taking is not adequate, both in the amount and the kind. Tablets don't disolve well and you need a significant amount immediately available. Capsules are better, at least 12 is the number given by Dr. Stratton, and I've found powdered form in water to allow more significant amounts. Still, anything is hard to swallow when you are that nauseated. But remember that fat soluble porphyrins build up on you, so the likely the circulating load of porphyrins was increasing and then tipped over the edge by a bigger die-off from the pyruvate. So the best way is to prevent such a big episode by regular use of adequate amounts of charcoal all along, keeping your porphyrin load from building up.

On the pyruvate, it does appear to me to encourage conversion back to RB form where the doxy/azith combo kills it more readily, and can cause increase in various symptoms of die-off often more associated with pulses-- depending on your load of cryptic Cpn. All this is speculative, but one way to make sense of reactions like yours. It will be another year before the lab data tests this. I have found it better to do pyruvate in pulses about once a month for a week or so as continued use seemed to accumulate other problems.

My experience on Cpnhelp over time is that people often underestimate the impact of porphyrins, and especially their ability to accumulate over time and the necessity of dealing with them more regularly. Readig your signature marks you as a prime candidate for this, because the more widespread symptoms you have the more likely you have more organ involvement by Cpn and larger bacterial load, and thus greater load of porphyrins from Cpn energy parasitism. 


CAP for Cpn 11/04. Dx: 25+yrs CFS & FMS. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BID, restarted Tini pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Good Morning Reve,  I have been looking at your past blogs as I recongnize that you started posting here about the same time that I did.  And I realize that you started tx in about Dec 07.  Clarityromycin(Biaxin) I have an Rx for it and just picked up my third bottle(all unopened as yet.)  I am also waiting this very day in anticipation of the arrival of my Roxi but it could be another week since upping the dosage of that to 300bid and I have gone through it quickly.   I may be starting the Clari sooner than later because of this because of this availablility situation.  

Anyway I have the pharmacists circular with this bottle very small type and lots of specific info for suseptible organisms etc. It appears to be effective for pathogens that reside in the upper respiratory tract and also those from the stomach.  It packs a punch on many fronts this med is very effective on its own so I  wonder about using it to augment  the response (taking it before)dosing theclari, Particularly in the situation when you have not done any flagyl or tini pulses in the past 10 months to take down the EB's first.  Just my humble opinion here and would not be too anxious to use it that way myself.  I have more stomach reactions ing general to more things that I have ingested since starting Doxy 18 months ago.  This is just now improved some and supplements are easier for me to take.  

I have worked in pyruvate but to resue me from afternoon fatigue and it is useful for me for that purpose.   May need to rethink that once I make the change to Clari. In the mean time I am catching up on needed life functions that have been on the back burner for over 2 years.  It is all a balancing act.  I am also wondering if you have considered starting with Tini.  I was able to go to full pulse with my second pulse.  Pulse one was 1 pill just to test the water.  I have done only full pulses without the gastric and GI or bad taste challenges. Fevers and fatigue yes but could take it on an empty stomach.  

Intermittent use of Cholestyramine cleans up the fatty endotoxins and porphyrins for me in a way that I could not tolerate the charcoal.  Pohphyins affect my stomach, brainfog, anxiety and fatigue levels.  

It is nice to hear that you have been able to work your way up on Clari, since it is available in the USofA easily I would like to hear from more folks that are using it.  Roxi is harder to comeby but I am doing very well with it.

Safe journey home.  Stop and do micro naps if you find yourself getting brainfoggy at the wheel.  I recall the days when that would happen to me.



  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

reve, I'm sorry your having a bad time.  Hope your sister finds the right doc.  It's weird.  Our doc started me on abx and told me to take 6gr of pyruvate 1 hour before antibiotic.  I mix it with my vita c and something called greener greens.  Mix it all with juice in blender.  Drink it down fast cause it tastes nasty.  A few minutes later I get a little boost.  I looked up on the web and body builders use it, good for diets.  It speeds up your metabolism.  Gives more energy to the cells somehow.  Why would some of us get a boost and some are sick with it?

FMS/CFS 1995. tinnitus, ibs, sinusitis, EBV, NAC 2400mg, valtrex, cortef, armour, doxy, biaxin, tini, vita c 5 - 10,000 daily 


I agree with Jim about porphyrins. I have paid a stiff price for underestimating the collateral damage they can incur.  However, Pyruvate always made me feel great, initially.  For me, the increase in spasticity left in it's wake was a nasty surprise.  Are there any fillers in your brand of Pyruvate?  The type of lingering nausea and aches you mention makes me a bit suspicious of stomach "flu"---though you seem sure that is not the case here. 

Taking a break from it sounds like a good plan.  You've got to follow your 'gut' feeling on such things.

Wheldon Protocol for rrms since Oct '05.  Added LDN 4.5mg qhs Oct '07.  All supp's.  Positive IGG's for Lyme Disease,Babesia, & Erlichiosis Sept. 2008.  Currently:  Mepron 750mg bid and Azithromycin 250mg qd for Babesia.