NAC & Stiff feet?

Shortly after taking NAC my feet became even stiffer like cement boots ..I also got a slight cold ..I havent had a cold in years ...has anyone had stiffer limbs after NAC?

The NAC kills the Cpn elementary bodies, which release toxins and those toxins will kick off inflammation that will either amplify your M.S. symptoms or create new ones. This temporary worsening is not permanent. I've had stiff limbs come and go. It's no biggie.

The cold is more than likely the 'NAC flu'. It's just part of the package.

Congrats. You are successfully killing the Cpn. Make sure to take your moppers. They'll help alot.

http://www.cpnhelp.org/moppers_and_detox

 

 

Hey Jen,

Great to know....I read Dr. Wheldon's site but didn't think Id get more than a stuffy nose or a bit sore from NAC.

I thought the hardcore symptoms would come once I started the pulses of Flagy.

Cpn load must be really high...never had stiff/cement feet as bad as this before..not as RRMS or SPMS..this takes it to another level.
Time to brave up
 
Btw I really appreciate the moppers link and all your great advice.
 
Thank you!
 
Space :)
 
 
Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Hi Jen,

Had to go all the way down to 250mg NAC and Im still having the exact same cement feet. 

Btw any particular reason why you prefer Tini over Flagyl?

xoxo

Space

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Ok. A little tough love now. You simply need to suck it up and wait for the cement feet to pass. Dropping the NAC dose that low is pointless. There is no therapuetic value.

A. For the protocol to work, you need to work your way up to 2400 mg a day. You do it slowly. Think of it as climbing stairs. The first step is 600 mg, the next is 1200 mg and so on. If you get to a step that is producing symptoms that are too much for you, then go down one step to the previous dose. Stay at that step til you are ready to climb again. Do not drop everything, putting you at the bottom of the staircase because you won't just be throwing away all the time you spent climbing those stairs but you'll have to eventually reclimb them all over again. You should also do this with the Doxy and Azithro. One day, you'll be able to take all 3 and feel minor almost insignificant die-off. It just takes time and patience.

B. The symptoms you are experiencing are caused by the toxins released by the Cpn. If you want to lessen the symptoms, you'll need to incorporate moppers and anti-inflammatory meds or foods into your regime. If you are heat sensitive, cold can help. 5 to 10 mg of prednisone can also be useful, but too much can leave you wide open to a secondary infection (virual, fungal or bacterial). Been there, done that.

C. You will need to toughen up. Stiff feet is very minor compared to what I and many others have suffered through. Unless they put you at risk for falling down the stairs, you'll have to accept them or just give up the protocol. It will get a lot harder before you start to see improvements. You will be eradicating lots of nasty bacteria from your system which can create a huge array of horrible symptoms. Almost every day now my ankles swell painfully, the joints in my legs throb and my sciatic nerves hurt. I don't really mention these symptoms anymore because they are my "normal" It's what I endure so that I may someday have fully working legs again. All those points of pain are areas affected by the Cpn. They will eventually heal. It takes alot of patience and tenacity to do the CAP. Sorry if I'm coming across harsh. I do not mean to be.

D. Some people have worse die-off from Flagyl than Tini. I am one of those people.

 

 

Hey Jen, 

I appreciate the tough love  but none of this is new;  had socks on my feet as RRMS, as I progressed they became shoes, then tight shoes and then boots as SPMS set in and now with 500mg of NAC those boots became really tight and cement like and close to unliftable and dangerous even on a walker or getting on a scooter, along with weirdest feeling as if they were wet ..in other words pretty hardcore neurological symptoms. 

Yes the toxins being released by the cpn are hardcore but Im not ready to give up on the protocol, haven’t even started Abx yet.

Anyways 250mg feels right for right now, Still feel die off and inflammation so im staying there for a week or so till im ready for 500mg and so on. then i'll try to find the 1200mg NAC and work up to 2400mg…At the time amazon had no NAC 1200mg only sustained 600mg http://amzn.to/1hor6gf  so i decided not to push it and buy the 1000mg in the meantime and split if necessary.

Thanks for the moppers info you sent, took care of that asap…and i do have prednisone somewhere  not a big fan but will take it if things get hairy again...and hey not to worry harsh is good gets my attention.. and understood regarding Flagyl and Tini 

Thank You!
Space :)

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

I usually take two 600mg NAC in the morning and two again at night.  You don't need to find high dose pills, unless you want to for some reason?

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Hi Space,

Rick found NAC in powder form on Amazon - and says it's cheaper - and is using that instead of the pills.  He bought a little scale to weigh his dosage.  I thought he was being a bit of a yuppie (he is quite the yuppie on many things - always wants the best most expensive options for whatever he's interested in, wanted to own a McLaren when he was 9 - it goes on!).  However - he has good rationale for it - such as being able to be very precise in the dosage.  He doesn't believe a 600mg prefilled capsule is always exactly that.

I hope you lose the cement feet thing.  Oddly - even though I don't have MS - I still have very odd sensations in my feet due to peripheral neuropathy, and "cement" feet is a good description, though I'm sure it's nowhere near as severe.

Best & Highest Regards,

Tom

Proud Parent of Rick - R started CAP in Nov. 13. Small measurable improvements as of 7/14, more by 10/14.  Holding Steady in early 2017.  "I will leave no stone unturned, no theory unexamined, to help my son." Tommi

How can he have NAC in powder! The smell must be horrible! The capsules already stink! 

By the way in a manufacturing plant 600mg and even 1 mg can be weight with no error. Pharmaceutical companies got that sorted years ago! 

 

MMHHPP

RRMS since 2010. Asthma sufferer during  2008-2012 - Free of asthma since started  Wheldon protocol- october 2012 doxy 200mg, Azytrom 3x week, NAC 1200g day and vitamins-  January 2013 started Flagyl pulses. i s

Hi MMHHPP,

Well - he does!  And - since it's bottled and he only opens it up to use it - I'm guessing it isn't a problem.  I happen to agree with the weighing thing - but - again, Richard is a bit of a yuppie!

Anyway - that means he can take it in whatever increment he wants - as little or as much. 

Best & Highest Regards,

Tom

Proud Parent of Rick - R started CAP in Nov. 13. Small measurable improvements as of 7/14, more by 10/14.  Holding Steady in early 2017.  "I will leave no stone unturned, no theory unexamined, to help my son." Tommi

Jen is right.

I suffered from what I thought was a nasty cold for the first 6 weeks after staring NAC. It subsided shortly after I introduced moppers to my regimen. 

My joints swelled up, and I was exhausted. This too has subsided. 

As strange as it sounds, it IS a great sign.....you are killing those nasty bugs! 

 

Good luck! I hope your stiff limbs loosen up soon! :)

M :)

Hi Free2fly,  

Yes thanks right after reading the moppers link Jen posted I went directly and ordered the Chlorella 1000mg 

And yes exactly, as strange as it sounds its a great sign....at least now we can do something about the nasty lil critters :)

Thank you!
 
Space :)
Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Reading all these comments, I realize that I could believe I had no reaction to NAC when I began at the full dose because bad sinuses were ALWAYS mine.   I always had tissue with me, and a lozenge in my mouth during concerts.  Toward the end I took a year's sabbatical for a sprained right shoulder, (ha - it was MS).  Now I realize that they probably just got worse with NAC - I think still an hour or two after NAC, AM and PM, that I, to this day, have a little extra drainage.  

But, years later, yes, my right foot became more and more numb, and then crept up my right side faster and faster, reaching midrib.  I walked by lifting my right shoulder and swinging my body ahead.  I, too, could not get my right foot off the ground at all.   I said for years that I could have skinned myself and not felt it. It took years but is getting more normal all the time.  Your head must be clearer than mine was, because I don't think I realized how much was happening - or not - at the time.

So, as usual, my feeling is the same:  take your pills.  The longer we drag this out, the more the permanent damage adds up.

Rica

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Hey Rica,

Oh trust me not a numb feeling in my case..the pressure feels like wearing boots 3-4 sizes smaller ...even 24 hours after taking NAC

Good news is Im definitly going to get this done...Was ready to start after Christmas ..apprx Dic 27th ..but now Im reading Dr Stratton feels 3-4 months of supplements b4 Abx is suggested...so looks like NAC and I are going to be hanging out quite a bit before Abx.

HUGZ

Space

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Hey MacKintosh,

Understood will do

Thank you 

Space :)

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the heads up on Ricks powder NAC @ Amazon, didnt see it on my first searches... Ill put powder NAC next time.

Peripheral neuropathy (similar in MS) is very rough ...lucky your not wearing cement fashion boots like I am :)

Thank you!

Space


 

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Hi there,

I've been at this for 6 months and my feet pretty much hurt all the time.  Right now they are really swollen and are BURNING!  This happened occassionally before I started CAP.  Now it is pretty much constant.  I am hoping this means they are being worked on...  

As for NAC I worked up to 2400 but it was too tough so I went back down to 1200 and now I'm back up to 2400 again and I hardly sniffle at all.

Here's hoping everyone's feet are painfree soon! 

 

 

Hi!

I was hobbling about like a long-time cripple through much of this last hot summer through to a couple of weekes ago.  I took to heart advice I got from this site; advice from Jen O'brien.  I had assumed that nothing could be done for my arthritis.  Jen's remedy of caster oil worked a treat.  Maybe this may help you a little bit ... or perhaps Jen has a remedy for your current ailment.

Whatever the case, good luck my friend.

G

“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln

Appreciate that Supaguy,

Jens already been knocking at my door and Ive been listening very closey shes the voice of expierience but above all of determination.

Thank you

Space

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Hi there Healthy Girl,

So then they became constantly swollen and buring after CAP, seems you already had some neuropathy issues because of MS, are you able you to still walk unassited?

Did NAC also give you this reaction?

Stay Brave Healthy Girl :)

Big Hugz

Space

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

HI there,

I started using a cane about 18 months ago.  My walking has deteriorated greatly since staring the CAP.  Now I don't leave my house very often...

When I first started NAC it made me very weak and tired and I had to stop physiotherapy.  I am not sure if it contributed to the foot pain/swelling.

I hope that I am near the bottom and that my walking will soon start to improve.

Here's hoping good things are just around the corner for all of us!

Take care,

Hi Again Healthy Girl,

Oh ok so then this was not happening to you for years as in my SPMS case, so just one or two episodes.

Lucky you ...but still the more I find on NAC the more cautious I get...specially after yesterday, when I pushed it and took and extra 250mg to complete 500mg and boy has it gotten bad..my right foot which was the good one has gotten pretty unmovable...add to all this I even got low blood presure and dizzy spells. 

Btw, NAC has been responsible for severe anaphylaxis reactions ..so just bc some might asimilate it better than others.. we shouldnt get false hopes...everyone should start with a low dose at first.Ofcourse there are more risks if done IV than oral but even 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction in some people.

It typically causes a number of symptoms including an itchy rash, throat swelling Low blood pressure Common causes include insect bites/stings, foods, and medications. (in our case Cpn?)

Hugz and better to walk b4 we run. 
Space :)



Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Space, if you are having so much trouble with NAC, why not just stop it for a few months?  I didn’t even start taking it until I as on intermittent therapy and I ever took amoxicillin as an alternative.

Are you really taking everything IV?  You must be a glutton for punishment!.....................Sarah

A Journey through Light and Shadow

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Hey Sarah!

Amoxicillin sounds like an option..think I read somewere that Dr Stratton used it b4 NAC was intro by Dr Wheldon.

Nah no IVs! I just read that in med journal

Thank You

Space :)

 

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Space, I have restarted the protocol using amoxy and it has made a big difference for me. I absolutely could not  tolerate NAC. Turns out it's a sulfa drug and I'm allergic to sulfa. Sometimes pain really does mean stop. I'm exhausted and headachey with sinus pain with amoxicillin, but not blinded from extremely painful conjunctivitis as I was with NAC.  Anaphylaxis sounds plausible.

I think that for some of us this first drug is absolutely necessary.

PPMS-misdiagnosed 2001-diagnosed 2006. Probably caught cpn in birth canal but it didn't pass BBB until my 40s. Minocycline 7 mos.- resulting bronchitis 5 months.Go to private m.d. out-of-plan. Wheldon CAP 3/2/07 Stopped 12/12; resumed 12/13

Dear Arttile Hello,


Thats a fantastic that all is going so well for you using Amoxcy.

Did you start the Amoxcy with the vitamin regime b4 starting CAP?

Also what strength; 50-100mg x day?  and are you still using Amoxcy with CAP?  or no longer?

Thanks for the heads up 
Space :)

Dx RRMS 2000 - Dx SPMS 2010 Started full *Wheldon Supplements on Nov 25th 2013 so D Day will be Feb 25th 2014. 
*NOT NAC

Well Space, I've been on CAP for 7 years, all meds and supplements (except only occasional NAC). I stopped it 1 year ago because I had become too weak and exhausted to function and hoped to regain some strength. I had never gotten used to the meds. Over the 7 years I had gone slowly downhill: Iwent sharply downill this October. So I restarted with 1 doxy and 1 250 mg amoxy. After a week I added a second amoxy. I lasted 3 weeks before I destroyed my digestive system (the probiotics must have been too old). I think I'm almost ready to start again. I have taken all supplements plus additional ones for 7 years. I am thinking of trying only amoxy before I add doxy. I had been sleeping 12-13 hours/day and I'm hoping to do better if I go more slowly.

I have ppms -- no meds available for it. So for me there is no question; it is CAP or nothing. And I have now proven what I had suspected: the protocol slows it down. Perhaps with amoxy I can stop it.

PPMS-misdiagnosed 2001-diagnosed 2006. Probably caught cpn in birth canal but it didn't pass BBB until my 40s. Minocycline 7 mos.- resulting bronchitis 5 months.Go to private m.d. out-of-plan. Wheldon CAP 3/2/07 Stopped 12/12; resumed 12/13