27 Apr 2018
Author
ClosedAccount1
Title

Moppers and Detox

Body

Moppers and DetoxIf you’ve decided to undertake a CAP for the treatment of Cpn, you're going to need 'moppers'. Moppers are items taken to help clear dead bacteria, toxins, and porphyrins from our bodies. Getting rid of that garbage helps reduce the die-off effects produced by the CAP. But even if you aren't undertaking a CAP, detoxing can still benefit you.  The moppers and other items listed below can help.*The information below does not include every possible side effect or drug interaction.

Comments

Jen, great information...is it recommended to take moppers during the times when you are NOT experiencing ill effects from the die off? Thanks! Lynette

Stratton/Wheldon regime for asthma, chronic bronchitis, and sinusitis. Started 6/13. NAC 1200mg morning/night; Doxycycline 200mg daily; Azithromycin 250mg MWF; Flagyl 400 mg 5 day pulses monthly; Synthroid 25mcg daily; Omeprazole 20mg.&a

Jen...You're THE BOMB!!!!Laughing  That list is going to help so many people!  Myself included...thank you!Hope you have a sparkling day!CoolLori

FM/CFS/IBS/Reynaud's/suspected Lupus and many neuro problems, disabling muscle & joint pain and weakness.Started CAP 4/10/13 - Doxy 100mg bid/Clarithromycin 500mg bid/NAC 1800MG per day/Flagyl pulse 500mg bid once per month,All supplements

Wonderful, Jen: this should help many people!..........................SarahA Journey through Light and Shadow

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Wonderful Jen!  Yes I will look for some additions but for a start, if you go in and try to edit it you can also put a duplicate reference in the bookmarks forum so that we can suggest that people look for it there once the thread is moving into the archives! For a first comment about the Chitosan you might add the warning for folks with shellfish (shrimp) allergies to avoid this (although I have heard that this may be overplayed.) And the warning to avoid taking it close to fat soluble vits.    And there are I believe two forms one is a higher density and therefore more bile absorbant.   And the NOW label calls it a dietary fiber instead of a sugar.The form to look for is LipoSan ULTRA Chitosan which may be on the label as in the Wholehealth.com product or in the Supplemental facts as on the NOW brand which I get locally but I would guess that vitacost and that other large supplier that ships overseas (which one is it Sarah?) would have the Now Brand of products.The directions differ on these two manufactures.  It is suggested for Weight mangement (decrease fat in diet and perhaps cholesterol lowering is suggested on the Now label - Supports healthy cholesterol levels is how they phrase it, for those uses it is suggested with meals.  BUT that is not the way it is best used to bind the lipophilic endotoxins and porphrins that CAPers are  looking to bind and eliminate with the stool.I also think that a fat stimulation like that suggested with the cholystyramine would be useful.  I take ChitosanUltra at bedtime after a fat stim snack a full fatted cheese just a small chunk maybe 15 to 20 min before the Ultra Chitosan (or same with cholystyramine)  I have not take them together.   The chitosan is a capsule so that is a bit of a plus for me ;0)    I used to take the Cholystyramine starting several days into the pulse and take for about 10 days into the post pulse period.   Since some folks get the die off well into or even after the 5 day pulse this works well.  When I was using it regularly at first before I talked my doc into writting the rx I got it across the pond and had to stretch it.  At the time I did not know about the Ox Bile which I have not tried as I finally got the rx from doc.  ChitosanUltra is much more economical if you are self pay so that is a consideration.So the NOW brand suggestd 3 capsules  (1.5 grams for serving or 500mg each capsule and suggests 3 caps with each meal so 9 or 10 per day has been suggested by that manufacture.The WHOLEHEALTH brand is 4 capsules ( 2 grams) once a day or upon the direction of your practitioner.   The Ultra claims to bind up to 5 times that of the conventional Chitosan.  And encourage to be taken with 8 oz of water would probably be a good idea.  It may also swell up like the choly it is hard to say.  Guess I could put a capsule in water and see what happens.I have taken 4 of either generally at bedtime and occasionally during the day when I was feeling brainfogged was a motivator for me.Also seems I read at some point the sauna may also kill CPn that is at the level of the skin such as those with Rosacea.Wish I had known about the Diatomacous Earth and MCP when I really needed these things!  The require no rx so that is a plus for some with a non-coperative practitioner.For me I found the sheer number of charcoal needed to be downed hard to fit in and not appealing to my stomach but seems that I may be unusual in this regard.  At one point I think I counted 40 pills or caps per day on a 24/7 nauseau stomach that is a lot of swallowing and for me a challenge.I took the 8 gms (two packets at bedtime for the cholystyramine) also ask for the brand with sugar not the aspartame it is bad for your brain and the drugstores seem to try and push it since they can substitute it even if not called for.  The brand that I get is PAR pharmaceutical Spring Valley NY the product number is NDC 49884-465-65 that might help.  It has an orange flavor and if you add a little selter very slowly it can be fizzy!  But slowly or you'll get an overflow.   Chase the cholystyramine with a extra glass of water as it to has caused a few folks constipation.  Of course some folks with MS like symptoms are more prone to sluggish bowels than others.I know you can sort out the relevant points and gather them more understandably.   I took the ChtosanUltra between my days of cholystyramine.   Better to stay ahead of the die off then try and catch up to it if possible.If I think of more I'll post again.   Thanks Jen for gathering this info in one place for folks to read and reread and sort through when someone suggests "MOPPERS!"Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Simplify, simplify, simplify.Those most desperately in need of moppers are likely unable to digest that much detailed information.  Maybe do it as a two-level informational post, like the basics in regular type and the really detailed stuff in italics?  Or, here's what you HAVE to know and if you want more info, read the in-depth information in the lower half of the post.  I. know, when I'm desperate, I don't want everything you ever wanted to know about (fill in the blank).  I just want to know the basics.  When I feel better, the crisis has passed, or I have some leisure time available, then I might want to go back and read the entire body of work.Just an opinion, but I think the longer and more encyclopedic it is, the less likely people will refer to it when they're really in need. Even now, my eyes glaze over when a post goes on and on and on...

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

I agree with Mac, do it as a 2 part thing.  When feeling really ill you just want to know what will help, later you may want to know why/how.wonderful information and all in the same place, well done ladies. 

MS Diagnosed 07/03/05, copaxone Jan 2011 to Jan 2013, started doxy 13/10/12, started roxy 06/11/12, increased doxy 28/11/12. first metro pulse 01/01/13. Tini Dec 2014. Fampyra,B12,Vit C,Vit D3,Vit E,Vit K2, NAC,ALA,AcetylL-Carnitine,Fish oil,

The cautions are for those that will have problems with these things and some will.  Some because of their particular form of disfunction some because of their genetic make up.   I think that Jen will sort it well.  These things that  I have shared I have always shared with detail.  It is part of knowing your body and we are very much the same but with variations.  Mack you had a much eaiser time with your CAP experience.  I would have been one of those that would have fallen off if I had not had more information than most and the help of JimK who had wonderful suggestions and seemed to have similar reactions to these supports in some cases and helped me work it all through.   It is because of this that I give the detail those that do not need it will not read it in the end.  But or when they have trouble with these interventions for the challenges of CAP they may come back and figure it out.  There is not always someone able to answer the help questions particiularly for interventions that they have no experieince with.  I have the experience with these, have the knowledge to understand them and answer them but do get less and less responsive to the questions as I have written many, many , many individual explainations that just move on into the archieves and get lost.I would also say that looking into methylation (detoxification support of the liver and the body) as I have written numerous times and have located under the Bookmarks forum topics was also instrumental in shifting the tide of massive overload of toxins and porphyrins in early treatment and allows me to breeze through occassional intermittent tx..     Right now I am on my first occasional (seems to be yearly) 3- 4 months of continuous CAP and I am doing fabulously, keeping my Chronic Persistent Bacterial Infections at bay or maybe gone.    I would have done more than 2 years but my scary high liver function tests shifted me to intermittent and the use of Ursodiol (bile replacement) brought them down to normal eventually.   The past 3 years I go on a course of CAP, all three abx,  Doxy, Cloritho or Roxi, and Tini for the summer, good timing should I meet a tick and good insurance to keep the bugs beaten back.     I am now back at the university, my mind is crisp I get great grades, This will be my 5th degree when completed and an additional shift of focus to make my life richer and meaningful.  I feel like I am getting younger not older in many ways.  I am looking towards animal welfare and service/therapy animal work for my retirement occupations/avocation.   All this would not be possibile if I  had not been able to ENDURE the HARDSHIPS of 2 years of CAP and 1 year of intermittent started over 6 years ago!  Without these adjuncts I was out of action completely and fogged out of my mind.  All I could do was sit at my computer and interact here.  God bless this website for it's info and it's outlet for those who need it.   And I cannot keep duplicating and spending hours writing detailed posts.  During the last upgrade of this website much of the wonderful work that Michele Findlay did to bring out much of this support info was distorted do to reformatting and again this info is not available.  Michele has sorted some of it out at my request but she has moved on with her focus as her own CAP healing has been a miracle for herself.   I see this thread as an attempt at regathering distorted data and it is much needed.So there is my rant, I have been frustrated about the loss of much easily accessed info, and met my limit of lengthly detailed posts that some don't appreciate and argue with me over.   I had lots of problems with toleration of CAP, understand the workings of the treatment, even recently completed a University level Microbiology Course which I have been wanting to take since I started CAP so that in itself is a wish come true. People have a whole range of reactions to CAP.  God Bless those who have an easy time we need more of them.  And God Bless those of us who have a hard time and find ways to cope and correct some of the challenges of our individual bodies and then acutally share the resources that we find. Knowledge is power and the details are important as none of this is easy.   Dealing with docs is not easy, complaining scares them into taking things away from patients or not giving them what they request in the first place.   If you complain to tme about someting, take constipation they will simply say stop that medication.  Best we have ways of learning to be smart in all of these adjuncts and and the use of CAP as many docs will not use it as it has been developed by Wheldon and Stratton.  How often to we see folks rushing in and getting over their heads.  Yes once you are well on the treatment increasing or shifting from Wheldon to sustained Stratton tx may be needed but in the beginning better to walk slowly into it.  Often the overload sneeks up on a user of CAP in month 3 when they begin to think it is smooth sailing and it will be a breeze.   Folks need to see this tx as a marathon long term lifestyle changing sort of event.  Everyone wants to get it over sooner than later but I can attest that I got worse with my initial treatment from the first week.   I tried not to complain but it was HELL for me I could walk (no mslike symptoms) but I had no power to walk and had to be lead around Home Depot holding onto my husbands arm and thinking all of the time that I wanted to sit on the floor I felt so weak.   I had a high bacterial load and I had it bad in the liver and I had NO ENERGY TO SPARE.     NOW I HAVE A LIFE and get up and get out and participate.  I wish this for all who enter into CAP as Rica says it is not for the faint of heart.   And since 2007 I have read here with interest and have seen many get challenged and drift away.  I have had individual coaching experiences and people get on over whelm and change direction and stop even with detailed, detaied, detailed interaction.    AND THIS APPROACH IS THE BEST CHANCE FOR THE MOST TO IMPROVE THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE AND STABILIZE THEIR DECLINE FROM CHRONIC PERSISTENT BACTERIAL INFECTIONS THAT MUCH OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY DENIES!Thank you Jen for being so into helping folks here now.  If you like pmessage and I will give you my email so that you can use me for a sounding board and resource but to make my contribution another public debate does not serve me.   I have spent to many hours being dismissed by those here who have not have my problems when it comes to my suggestions for dealing with the hard times that come as a result of the CAP treatment fallout.Now my input is being debated as too detailed.  Seems to me that you asked me not all here what I felt was of value and it again has become a regulation of Louise's information debate once again.  This has caused me to back of more than once in contributions here.   I am fluent in medical speak has caused a few rifts over the years.  I have hutzpa (sp) and am tenatious and persist. But my time is spent elsewhere now thanks to CAP and I want to see full disclosure given on any adjuncts that are posted here with my name included, people here are very much self caring around this treatment even if they have a doc writting the rxs for abx.   A few docs get the whole picture but not most and they are moving to fast to thing to much about your constipation.   Most of my adjuct that my doc writes rxs for me are topics introduced by me and argued by me as to my need for them and finally sometimes after several visits, first he says no then I keep at him and he bends but it can take 6 mos or more and several visits.   Take my urosdiol that took three visits I was about to go over the pond to find it and self pay it.  I take 500mg twice a day for those who want to know the dosage.  More bile means more clearing of the liver.  I noticed that JimK was taking it and I researched it, Raven commented that it prevents macular degeneration at one point.  So I am rambling and ranting and those who want to hear what I say fine and those that think I have to much to say well ignore me.    I needed all the information that I provided to make informed decisions not just assurances that this or that can work without the details of how it can bring you difficulty too if not given full consideration.So is this my Full intermittent Yearly Course of the Doxy/Roxi/Tini inprogress speakiing maybe.  But it is also all true and I feel necessary for folks to have full disclosure a bit like with surgery they tell you all the scary maybe but not likely things that could happen for you to consider the risk.  These interventions, adjuncts do have risks for some not everyone but everyone should consider them before useing them.   And using them could well improve your experience of CAP so they may improve you toleration of CAP and are well worth consideration.I believe that I have had a successful CAP treatment.  I was basically sliding over a period of years into Chronic Degenerative Disease, MS may have developed or been dx eventually, Rica says that I sounded like she was in her early days.     Am I cured, maybe, maybe not, hard to say.   Like what Life on the Ice once wrote, she eventually took a course of CAP ( after completing a successgful return to function) when she felt the need.     So I treat at this point Full three abx once a year, sliding into the abyss can be incidious and I just don't have the time now to get behind an other round of severe chronic debilitating fatiguing symtoms.    I use these adjuncts and the  methylation supports for my life supports and I use full time 3CAP protocol yearly in the same fashion.   CAP is a pro-active patient advocated treatment and this demands that you know and understand the whole  picture, even ifyou have to struggle to understand it, no one cares as much about your "case" as you do and those who get that get through the CAP treatments and get the most that they can from it.I may cut and past this in a blog it is quite a rant but I want it connected here as it has been generated in response to folks who thing I talk to much and give to much detail and I disagree.I thank all here who stay and participate and get the word out and help other in whatever way they can.   Just a friendly I hear you to those in distress is apprciated, I know I was there too.  Now I have a life again.  CAP is not the complete answer for everyone but it is worth doing and non-progression though seem by some a not what they want well it is better than ............Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Ok I found the Diatomaceous Earth at our local healthfood store! The brand name is Lumino and the label says for your home but it also says Chemical Codex Food-Grade.   It states that it is mined, crushed and bagged in the USA.   It is OMRI lisgted for organic Use.  There is a website www.LuminoWellness.com   There are a few cautions on the labe don't inhale may cause eye or resp. irritation, wear a dust mask if used for prolonged periods. And a second website  www.LuminoHome.com

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support