Submitted by rcquilter on Mon, 2016-02-01 17:49

Hello everyone,

I really apprecieate all of your feedback. I got off the Abx again after a 2 day restartbecause it was too intense after a 6 month holliday from the Cap. I still am bedridden since I got on the Cap. My Cpn level is exaxtly IgG, 1:64, and it should be less than 1:64. It's been the same since I started the Cap 3 years ago. Does anyone know of another way to get rid of the Cpn besides the Cap? I'm considering Ivermectin. I have severe optic neuritis. Does anyone have any thoughts about Ivermectin and eyesight? I have had MS for 19 years. I'm in my late 30's. Please give me your thoughts. 

Thank you,


Hi Rachel,

Did you ramp up or restart where you left off?

Best & Highest Regards,

Tom C

Proud Parent of Rick - R started CAP in Nov. 13. Small measurable improvements as of 7/14, more by 10/14.  Holding Steady in early 2017.  "I will leave no stone unturned, no theory unexamined, to help my son." Tommi

I have been thinking about Ivermectin in context to something we have been trying of late. Cpn likely has the ability to pump out antibiotics which makes them resistant to many/all antibiotics. This is not a popular view here but that has been my conclusion based upon observation, the in vitro data which show it is never completely eradicated, and the fact that Cpn encodes P-glycoprotein (PGP MDR1, multi drug resistant efflux pump).

I have been using diphenhydramine (Benadryl) as an adjunct as it is a substrate to these pumps which whether you view this as using up available ATP in Cpn or a competitive substrate to the pumps, might be helpful. The results so far have been very positive. Using caffeine which I think induces the Cryptic state also seems to help as the cryptic state has far lower energy availability. Efflux pumps are metabolically expensive, that is they require a lot of ATP to operate.

I any event Ivermectin is also pumped out via P-glycoprotein and as such should provide similar benefit as Benadryl, albeit with a bit more risk for toxicity.

It is worth noting that for the Cryptic/caffeine approach to work, one would probably need to be taking a rifamycin or tetracycline drug (my preference is Doxycycline and Rifabutin). These two families of drugs should be active against Cpn in the Cryptic state.

- Paul

Paul, who are "We?"......................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Humans have a variant of PGP / MDR1 too, and it doesn't stop antibiotics from getting into us in effective doses.  For that matter, why try a substrate for that pump when you can try an inhibitor?  There seem to be plenty of inhibitors known, including azithromycin:


Hi Norman,

The P-glocoprotein efflux pumps do in fact significantly effect intracellular drug concentrations and this is a big issue with chemotherapy and killing intracellualr pathogens. Some drugs like azithromycin are more resistant to being pumped out. Generally they are drugs with longer half lives (for example azithromycin has a 68 hour half life). The reason for the long half life is that human cells have difficulty pumping them out. This does not mean that Cpn has difficulty pumping the same drugs out, they may or may not. At minimum you have both the host cell and Cpn pumping them out which means that the Cpn will have a relatively modest drug concentration.

Also it is notable that the p-glycoprotein pumps that Cpn encodes only had a 79% match (at least in the one I found). That is a close enough match to be certain it has the same activity but enough variation that it probably has different substrates. The logical substrates that it would have evolved are ones that would have a negative effect on it. For example, human cells are not effected by tetracyclines and even though people are exposed to tetracycline as it is produced in common soil bateria, it would not be very important for human cells to be able to efficiently pump it out. Cpn OTOH can be killed by tetracycline and would likely have evolved ways to deal with it.

- Paul

A single nucleotide change in the wrong spot can completely ruin a protein's functionality.  A protein that has 21% of its amino acids different may have been repurposed entirely.

Anyway, just being exposed to tetracycline isn't enough to drive evolution; you'd need people (or other hosts for Cpn) to have had sufficient levels to have a real antibiotic effect.  That ancient Nubian tetracycline beer that made the news a few years back could have done it, if it had been ubiquitous.

Which organism did the genes come from that gave that 79% match?

I haven't started Ivermectin because I'm concerened about the effects it may have on my vision. I am nervous about going further downhill.  Don't know what to do. I might try a new MS drug being approved later this year, but it doesn't affect Cpn.

Paul, would you tell me more about the use of cafeen that you mentioned in your post? Do you think it would be helpful for me?

Why did I think that getting off the Cap would be suicide? I feel like hell.