27 Apr 2018
Author
Jim K
Title

Is NAC really as good as amoxicillin?

Body

I had just started on amoxicillan after a year on the protocol to start to adress the EB load which probably had built up in my tissue. I posted this in "Jim's Story" update a while back.

Comments

I did take amoxi for a couple of weeks after starting NAC and felt nothing that I wasn't already feeling with NAC, but certainly try amoxicillin at some point.  Although for a time more disabled than many people here, I didn't really suffer much from pain, but whether that was due to EB load or lack of it, I don't know.....Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Yes, I agree about using Nac alone. I use Cuprimine also and get much stronger reactions with that medication than when I have taken just NAC. When I need to take a short break from the killing cycle, I stop taking it for a few days. I think it is stronger than just using NAC. Happy Healthy New Year everyone and I wil try to remember to stop by and chat on Jan 1 at 3pm (West Coast time).Raven 

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

D W

I shall stick with NAC. Apart from opening disulphide bonds in proteins it is a good source of cysteine, a precursor of glutathione, which is an essential molecule depleted in chronic infection with cpn. This depletion can have serious consequences. Why might glutathione be depleted? One reason may be because intracellular cysteine concentrations are low. Why might intracellular cysteine concentrations be low? Because cpn is likely to hoard this amino acid in preparation for the synthesis of surface proteins for its EBs (even if complete EBs are not fabricated.) At all events cysteine concentration seems to be the critical factor in glutathione synthesis, and the safest way to supplement is with N-acetyl cysteine. So I shall stick with NAC.

There's no doubt that NAC achieves good concentrations in the body. The reactions I experienced when starting it were dose related. They were in just the sites where you would expect high concentrations of EBs; ie, the respiratory tract: simuses and bronchi. They were unpleasant for about a month, and then slowly went. EBs are, by their nature, extracellular and so are presumably readily accessible. There would be no reason to expect these reactions to be unduly prolonged.

 

D W - [Myalgia and hypertension (typically 155/95.) Began (2003) taking doxycycline and macrolide and later adding metronidazole. No medication now. Morning BP typically 110/75]

David- Your reasoning, as always, is impeccible, using our N=1 experimental process-- self observation. Have you tried a course of amoxi just to see if you get any additional reactions? This might be especially telling since your reactions to NAC have diminished so.

I continue to take NAC for exactly the reasons you mention-- both it's anti EB effect and it's support for glutathione. I think it was Cheney, a CFS/FMS expert, who first observed that patients using non-denatured whey concentrate, a huge source of l-cysteine and other glutathione precursors, showed diminishment of both Cpn and mycoplasm infections. But I'm adding the amoxicillin slowly because there is a clear added kill effect for me. 

On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpn in CFS/FMS since December 2004.

Burning in feet

Jim, do you still have the burning and if not, how long until it went away?  My main symptoms are burning feet and tingling in fingers and toes.  My hands and feet will flush and get cold also.  My muscle twitching has remitted a bit as has the tinnitus but my symptoms seem to cycle without reason anyway, and I had all of them before even starting the protocol. 

Golfbuddy- I get this less and less. Really seemed to get the burning, especially feet,  from amoxi or NAC (anti-EB). Now I sometimes feel it in on waking, but it's pretty minimal now. See, it does get better, albeit gradually.

The cold extremities reaction is more from endotoxin reaction. I seem to be in balance on that with a combination of Niaspan and Trental through Dr. Powell.

On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpn in CFS/FMS since December 2004.

Thanks Jim.  I am doing both Amoxi and NAC with the Doxy and Azithro but I had the burning and the flushing before I even started Abx so I am hoping that I could have been having it from the primary CPn infection itself.  It hasn't really changed since Abx.

lee

I developed hives from amoxicillian a year after my first bout of pneumonia. I have to stick with the nac . I have the hardest time with it so I know it is doing something. Nac is a good alternative for me. The reaction to the amoxicillian happed on the 4th day  maybe a herx way back then and will be interesting if after this treatment I am able to take it again.

200mg doxy daily, 500 zithromax mwf,flagyl 1000 m-fri.rifampin 2x daily,chloestryramine 2x daily

 All the updated protocols (see handbook) use NAC instead of amoxi now. No need to take the amoxi.

On Wheldon/Stratton protocol for Cpn in CFS/FMS since December 2004.

That’s right JimK, unless you’re like me, and are allergic to the sulfur in NAC.

 

Wheldon Protocol for rrms since Oct '05.  Added LDN 4.5mg qhs Oct '07.  All supp's.  Positive IGG's for Lyme Disease,Babesia, & Erlichiosis Sept. 2008.  Currently:  Mepron 750mg bid and Azithromycin 250mg qd for Babesia.