27 Apr 2018

"We have turned the tide on MS"


This is a link to an article on using one's own stem cells to halt MS. (It was originally published in the Lancet, and maybe someone can supply the link?) On reading it, this seems not out of line with the cpn infection theory, as they DESTROY the immune system with chemo as part of the stem cell therapy. And it makes sense that stem cell isn't effective in older cases of MS, as the infection is so deeply spread and entrenched at that point. (I'm thinking abx therapy is the only way to go at that point, anyway.


Marie, I think your reading of this study will be critical to our understanding of it, as you have so much knowledge on the subject and, of course, your deep personal interest. When you have two spare seconds or so, maybe you could comment? I'm hoping there's some good news in it for you, but I wouldn't pretend to comprehend any medical studies. They speak a far different language than I do.  Image removed.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Here I am Mack! I do not know if I can add what's needed but I will add what I can.

This approach is stem cell transplant in the more traditional model in that they are using the stem cells to "reboot" the immune system. Another idea, which is slow to take off due to limited research, is using stem cells to rebuild the brain. NO body thinks they are doing that here. The second type is the kind of stems I am interested in, but it is not even close at this point. (BTW, I wonder if they ARE getting that second type of boost even without thinking about it or looking for it cause it is off their mental radar. Improvements at such along time out, you wonder if nerves are rebuilding, slowly)

The interesting thing to me related to our model here looking at the procedure they did is that the entire peripheral immune system is being killed off: all the macrophages, b cells, everything. Does anyone see a possible advantage there?

Additionally when the people are in the nadir and their immune system is reading at zero or near it, they are at risk for infection and any slight hint of trouble and they are put on IV abx because they need them (mortality is high, though without completely killing the marrow it is a lot better, but when it happens, it is because of overwhelming infection). They also will often take anti fungals, anti virals and any other thing that seems to be needed to save them from rampant infection.

The marrow itself is not entirely destroyed, but the whole approach is heavily based on auto-immunity.

You notice that they say in no unceratin terms that MS *is* autoimmune and the immune system *is* attacking the brain, their assumption is that the procedure kills all those accidental autoreactive T cells that somehow got started in the individual person's body for some unknown reason, the old song and dance about autoimmunity that has never been shown in resarch and for which there is not a good idea as to why this bizaar phenom is happening. Why is your body destroying your brain? The goal of this therapy is to return the immune system to a "naive" state,(they need baby shots again)where they have no pre programmed immune cells and hope the "accident" does not happen again.

If CPn is destroyed by losing it's home the macrophage, the EBV losses it's henchman home in the b cells and there is body wide apoptosis, would that result in a dramatic reduction in places for CPn to hide? Would the lack of places to hide combined with fresh immune cells mean a defeat for CPn, at least in some?
I have no idea if that is a provable thing at all but it seems possible.

Or I could be all wet, I do not know. I looked to see if I could find any support for the idea that cytoxan, a type of chemo that can be used to ablate the immune system, might kill CPn, and did not find anything credible there at all. It is just not something people look at.

But 5 of the patients reactivated and needed "rescue" by some other method (steroids maybe?) I wonder if those 5 had less antibiotics in their post chemo phase when the immune system was really gone? It'd be interesting to know.

And the 17 who did well with 3 years of no relapse, did their CPn get cleared out to the point of no return? Did the fresh immunity take care of the Cpn that was left if it tried to take hold? I do not know at all, but it seems it could be possible.

These kinds of approaches pose a real challenge to our model, on the one hand you have to wonder if they are right and it IS autoimmune and people do get rebooted just as they say. But maybe that is not the only way "success" can be had.

You cannot EVER determine cause by effect. Just cause you THINK what you see means "x" does not mean that is what is really happening

And, BTW lets look at the 5 that reactivated, does it make any sense that this really rare phenom of "MS autoimmunity" should somehow line itself up again in people after such a procedure? Why wouldn't it recur at a rate of 1/1000, as the MS rate is, and not 20% as it did in the study? What makes these particular people's immunity to go back to that odd and unusual state? some co factor is being missed...

Did that help the way you wanted it to?

On CAP since Sept '05 for MS, RA, Asthma, sciatica. EDSS at start 5.5.(early cane) Now 6 (cane full time) Originally on: Doxy 200, Azith 3x week, Tini cont. over summer '07, Revamp of protocol in Summer '08 by Stratton due to functional loss; clarithro

you make some pretty awesome points Marie!




CFIDS/ME, FMS, MCS, IBS, EBV, CMV, Cpn, H1, chronic insomnia, Chronic Lyme, HME, Babesia, Natural HRT-menopause, NAC 2.4 gm,Full CAP 6-2-07, all supplements+Iodorol, Inositol-depression, ultra Chitosan, L lysine Pulse#27 04-19-10 1gm Flagyl/day-5 days<