27 Apr 2018
Author
supaguy
Title

Is there such a thing as "Leaky gut"?

Body

Is there such a thing as "Leaky gut"?I think there is.  Some may take the view that if you cannot offer up sound scientific proof that it does exist ...

Comments

Mackintosh... To educate oneself is to have an open mind.To me I feel whether it's wrong or right that having an open mind is not to be negative, yes cast a doubting eye over it, research it, really only on your own intelligence combined with what you have been given and then YOU make the choice! To only allow yourself to be convinced by others is not been self suffectent, to rely on others to much can lead you to make mistakes and lead you somewhere you might not want to be!  in the beginning of my journey I was a very bitter person, looking at other people with the same condition who seemed to be doing much better and getting off scott free and do you know what, I disliked it... I asked myself why me? Life is so unfair. I done nothing wrong! I began to be a very negative person! The glass was always half empty!! That had to change, I felt I was feeding something that was not me inside of me! i look at some of the one liner posts and ask myself what are they really saying here! Surely they can't think like that! But then I think back to a few years back remember me! my dad who suffers from Alzheimer's use to say to me."if you have nothing good to say, don't say nothing at all"i owe so much to DW and Sarah even if I am not on the antibiotics protocol but it was that cathayst program that truly got me on this path! yes I always suspected a pathogen but I felt like I was walking in the dark searching for a door that I knew was out there! Then, seeing the absolute genuine love and emotion, drive and determination in DW's voice and face, it was like the penny dropped!anytime I talk to people in similar situations I mention sarahs story as a inspiration to get them on the path to help themselves and not be waiting for progression to take them! With that always in the back of my mind when I come on here or met people face to face I try to Help them, firstly by listening and then by giving them a sense of direction and hope! these posts in relation to leaky gut makes me feel like my character is been placed on trial in a way.how do I feel about this? Emmmm, I am ok. I too was a doubting Thomas and come to think about it, I still am. But it's how you express that is what matters! I tend to get over things easier these days (-: but that doesn't  take away from the fact that all I am doing is hoping that I can make a little difference in a positive way to someone! To believe something might help and not share it in the correct manner and at the right time is not a great way to live I think .... To shut down a conversation because it's not going the way you wish it to go is not good, so yes, I am here writing about some leaky gut thing that some people thing is complete and utter rubbish and I really should can it! Well i am sorry for that! I don't consider myself as a rebel and I don't want to either but I do consider myself as a person who thinks outside the box!there has been one or two posts that made me feel like leaving this site and getting on with my own life... Having the attitude "well I am getting on just fine jack" but that feels like turning my back on people who I never met but give a dam about! right, enough of that stuff, back to business in hand. I made a few posts tonight. Opinions welcome.. Good or bad! Emmmm take it easy on the bad please (-:  

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

All that being said, what you just did was reiterate my comment. My point was, don't  chide someone, because that will close their mind to you.  Give them information to illustrate your point. Education comes from information, not from rapping someone's knuckles with a ruler. I don't care 'what direction' a conversation goes in, but I do care that participants here are civil and, dare I say it, maybe even KIND to one another. 

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

unkess I am going mad... Well some people may think I am already (-: I read it online. I will try to make contact with Terri and revert back with some info on this.ps... It was not all about eating kale! Talking to a few people that would be much more knowledgeable than I on this, they said the trial par-say was actualy quite good and invoked a lot more than diet. I believe but not sure but electro stimulation etc was involved also!

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

I asked her about that Jen and it's not as its been published. at the same time her recovery is fairly remarkable with only a dietary and supplement change and no antibiotics... You have to admit that surly..

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Jen... You said that Terri Walhs recovery isn't a success ...tom c posted a few weeks back that his son rick's progression seems to have halted. I would consider that a HUGE HUGE SUCCESS and you say hers  isn't ???? Why do you have that opinion. I would love to see you to your full health and I would be over the moon about it no matter how you do it.. I am really and truly baffled by what I think is a very very negative statement about something good! look I am not forcing anything down anyone's mouth and I certainly ain't trying to tell anyone not to take antibiotics... What I am simply doing is trying to find answers... will i I ever consider myself cured? Nope, but when I return to my full health, and I will (-: I will continue to take a healthy diet and a few supplements like NAC OLE etc.... Is that a form of managing l... Sure is... As I believe if I got another CPn infection and I wasn't managing my situation I could end up back at square one. I do believe that just getting Cpn doesn't give you ms... You need to be genetically disposed to reacting in a certain manner to that pathogen. Some people get ms some get heart issues etc etc.... So really arent we all managing our symptoms.i wouldnt use the word cured as I wouldn't be brave enough. But I would be dam glad to feel 100% normal again.

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Got something wrong here, but as far as Terry Wahls goes and the progressing going on is she stops the diet, that to my mind is not a cure: I wouldn't say I was cured if I had to take these antibiotics for the rest of my life..................Sarah

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Sorry Norman ... I forgot to answer your question!i got a few tests done. The usual bloodwork but done at a private lab. Then.. The tests you were wondering about!.the first round was done in March 2005 for intestinal permeability by a company in the uk called Diagnostic Services limited. A few years later I was researching something else and came across some reviews about this lab and some people questioned its testing technology, so me been me repeated the test but this time at R.E.D labs in europe. The results were nearly the same from both labs!fortunally I have some great contacts and friends in the medical field that helped me with this test and other stuff I needed done.. In Ireland its who you know or how much money you have when you need things done! along with that I got a tissue mineral analysis done also in the U.S. .... Which helped in putting another piece of the picture togethe For me! My journey continues (-:

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Just to keep this discussion lively...As I limped and stumbled back to my car this evening, after spending a good hour in the pool, I wondered whether I was cured.  No, this is not a joke question ... I am deadly serious.Yes, I limped and nearly tripped up at one point: very pronounced foot drag.  My walking  was much worse than before starting CAP ... so why mention "Cure" now?As posted earlier, I have just started tini pulse # 15.  I don't expect to feel that bad; perhaps a little bit yucky.  I have lots of issues within me.  The theory is that these issues were caused by a CPn infection.  As I limped back to my car, I pondered whether it could be that I had already killed virtually all of the CPn.  The fact that my shrunken & fatigued muscles were having a real struggle moving me along may have been due to the damage already done.  Maybe?  Maybe my intestines were initially damaged by CPn and that damage has yet to heal.  Maybe my lack of muscle is due to lack of adequate nutrition due poor absorption and assimilation.Yeah, it's all hypothetical but, if all the CPn was gone, would I be cured ... even though I cannot walk properly?Now I’m off to bed; those that like to stay up can chew the meat off that!Tongue OutSweet dreams.G. 

“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln

I consider myself cured and have recovered most of the abilities I'd lost, plus I've recovered LONG-AGO lost energy and stamina. I think eliminating the disease is 'cured', but it does not equal 'recovered'.  As the nice doctor told me while he sewed my severed fingertip back on,  nerve regeneration will not take weeks or months, but years.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

So... What other information do people require.I gave a good few links... and all I am getting back are one liners!dont want to end up talking to myself here!as for been civil.. Aren't I always!

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Well, if you care to answer my question, Darren, it was about what sort of tests you got -- not what you answered, which was where and when you got them.  What the actual results were would also be worth mentioning.But perhaps there's a technical obstacle here.  I'm viewing the forum in threaded mode, so the one-line questions appear right below the comment they are addressed to.  You may be viewing them in non-threaded mode, where it might not be clear what they were a reply to, and thus who they were asking for what.  For instance, my comment that one of your links contained some serious arguments for the concept of leaky gut was talking about this link in particular:http://chriskresser.com/pioneering-researcher-alessio-fasano-m-d-on-glu… researcher being interviewed also has this review article on the topic:http://physrev.physiology.org/content/91/1/151of which the full text is free to read.

And on the point of chide. I think I have been on the butt end of that with a few people in recent posts! please let me know where I was chide to someone.thanks D

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

Yep me too Darren xo I did have food sensitivity test - lots o $$ and apparently from MD : Lots of those  - I think over 15 mean leaky gut which I am addressing whether or not some may think this is from never never land. Proactive is what it's all about in my humble books. Which is why I am on this site! And Hooray!

Hi--I don't mean to add to controversy--but have lived this over 15 years--and hope this is helpful to people trying to heal their gut: Dr Terri Walhs  in her approach to treating her MS with the protocol she developed I believe she may have accidentally treated naturally her CPn infection by the supplements / diet and addressing her gut intestinal issues! I agree completely.   Since I have my life back—I cannot argue with her or my success.  She does take 2400 mg of NAC daily, for example.  Our immune systems need all of the support they can get, and certainly a super healthy diet is the low hanging fruit. D.W. is correct—and master of the understatement lol-- there are many examples of people with gut issues and brain damage.   A little reading on celiac disease will show this.  The gut and the brain are connected. Leaky gut is old news—not new--studied this twelve years ago from gastroenterologists—while trying to figure out how to help our son recover from autism.The people who are ahead of the curve on leaky gut—aka permeable intestine—are people in the autism community.  There are a ton of parents out there who have recovered their kids.  Not healed….but recovered.   Our son, recovered,  now 25, continues on a rigid gluten free diet.  But…he is completing his degree, working full time, and wants to own his own restaurant.  No accommodations.  Zero.  Would love for him to be healed, but we will take recovery.   The gut mucosal lining is only one cell thick and  therefore is easily  damaged.  For the people seeking help on this issue,  I think that the leaky  gut questions would best be served with groups related to: Specific Carbohydrate Diet, the Best Best Diet, the Body Ecology Diet, and Dr. McBride with the GAPS diet.  And many more.  There are people who can help you since they have “skin in the game” and are highly motivated to save their kids. The world is a big place…and the infusion of new studies, in part due to the internet, is massive.  The traditional medical community is not so receptive. So, we move on, right? My own thoughts:  The Wheldon’s et. al. are specialists in Cpn and we want to continue to honor their commitment to this particular bacteria.  Cpn was a very important piece to my puzzle.  This is a focused website with the big picture in mind. Thank you all for your commitment to this information and treatment options for Cpn.  Some of us are still searching for our answers.  This is not a straight path—and recovery is rough.   And wonderful.  We are all grateful for those who have gone before us.KatherineP.S. To the Wheldon’s….hope you are enjoying more curry.     Tried it again….kicked my butt…again.  Guess I need to sprinkle it on my food…. lol  Taking a Christmas break from curry, ginger, and black pepper!     

A Christmas break? What about curried turkey on Boxing Day?..........Sarah 

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

I have always had digetive problems which are now worse. But while I definitely have a lactose intolerance, gluten-free affects me not at all.That said, since I first heard of faeces replacement, I have been ready to eat shit.

PPMS-misdiagnosed 2001-diagnosed 2006. Probably caught cpn in birth canal but it didn't pass BBB until my 40s. Minocycline 7 mos.- resulting bronchitis 5 months.Go to private m.d. out-of-plan. Wheldon CAP 3/2/07 Stopped 12/12; resumed 12/13

I just got around to taking a good look at Fasano's review paper:http://physrev.physiology.org/content/91/1/151It's rather disappointing.  It's centered around the molecule "zonulin", which increases gut leakiness.  Zonulin is a protein that is derived from the same gene as another protein, "haptoglobin 2".  There is also a "haptoglobin 1"; people make either the one haptoglobin or the other, depending on which gene they have; or some people are heterozygous and make both.  So if you're homozygous for haptoglobin 1, you do not have the gene for zonulin and cannot make it.  This gives a powerful tool for determining the significance of zonulin in any given disease: test people for the gene, and see how that correlates with having the disease.  Disappointingly, he makes almost no use of this tool.  The one exception is for celiac disease, where he gives numbers for the proportion of celiac patients who have the different genes -- and while those numbers are different from the proportion in the general population, they're not all that different.  So even in celiac disease, zonulin does not seem to be a big deal; its gene is much less of a risk factor than the HLA-DQ gene is.The paper goes into the evolutionary history of the gene; haptoglobin 2, he says, is only found in humans, not in chimpanzees or any other species on the evolutionary tree; all the rest just have haptoglobin 1.  But then he's doing experiments on mice and somehow finding them producing zonulin.  I'm not sure what gives there, but something's got to give.  (The paper gives no hint that he has noticed the discrepancy; indeed, the review paper reads like it was hurriedly cobbled together from his previous papers, rather than being the result of rethinking the subject and trying to fit everything into a coherent whole.)As for the link with multiple sclerosis, he has a bar chart of zonulin levels; SPMS patients have about twice the normal level, while RRMS patients have the normal level when they're not relapsing and twice the normal level when they are relapsing.  This is not what I'd expect for something that was causal; it seems more like a byproduct of immune system activation.