27 Apr 2018

Cpn returned or not?


Dear All, I have just got back my medical results for Cpn. 6 years ago i was tested positive and treated 'till apparently became negative, however, my symptoms of 6 years ago recently reappeared (thus the new testing). I have had (and now new 'acting up' of hip-joint inflammation, excessive sweating, and a tingling-crawling feeling all over my body in the muscles....  So my results are: IgM: negativeIgg (MIF): >1:16IGA: (MIF) 1:16 with a note the chronic infection/re-infection is possible I have done all the research here and on the internet, but I still can not interpret these results.


It is possible to be seronegative and have a Cpn infection.  So in one sense, it almost doesn't matter what the lab work says, it is possible to have a Cpn infection.  However, I'd be estactic to have lab work like yours, for mine is as high as the lab measures for IgG and IgA.  Other pathogens can give symptoms similar to what you describe.  Some of those pathogens are mentioned in the infections tab of this website:  http://chronicfatigue.stanford.edu/Best, Timaca 

on valtrex 500 mg tidhttp://whispersfromthefather.me/   

Nakiru, You said you were treated for CPn before? With what, and for how long?

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Hi, it was 6 years ago, and as far I can remember I was on doxicycline and azithromycin for abut 3,5 monts... sorry, I forgot the details because I didn't know it is such a bad disease at the time....I was also treated for the Legionnaire's disease, so that kinda overshadowed all other bad llab results.... 

So, we have our answer. Three months is not at all long enough to wipe out a CPn infection. The tests are rarely accurate, so you should judge for yourself, by how you feel, and it's obvious the infection has grown again to the point where it is causing you problems.You should probably start NAC and Vitamin D3 right away, then work on obtaining the antibiotics.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Thank you, I just came down with a terrible throat infection with dry cough, and the overall feeling of absolutely no energy.... I think it is back!  

Sounds to me like Mycoplasma Pneumonia. I was infected with MPn and had exactly the same symptoms you descripe - joint\muscle-inflammation, the tingling\crawling sensation in my muscles, throat infection,dry cough, fatigue, night sweats and chest pain

We found Garth Nicolson's immed site before we found the Cpnghelp site.  The CAP and supplements look to me to be the same for chronic Mycoplasma infection as for chronic Chlamydia pneumoniae infection. Nicolson calls his protocol "Treatment Considerations:" He is not an M.D. He and his wife are both PhD pathologists, who were instrumental in  finding the cause and treatment for Gulf War Syndrome. The Nicolsons' expertise is mycoplasma. Mycoplasma can and does go intracellular just like Chlamydia pneumoniae. Tests for chronic mycoplasma are as complicated as those for Cpn and often just as unreliable. Most labs do not do either correctly.If I were you, Nakiru,( even at my advanced age: I'm 73), with a history of infection plus this new outbreak of disease, I would heed the advice on this site. There are years and volumes of knowlege and real life experience AND incredible improvements recorded here. Advice from both Wheldons is priceless. NO ONE knows like David and no one handles the day to day problems  of bloggers like Sarah. Do what you need to do to take care of you. You have an international support system here. t wish you WELL!MSmom

Uh, Nicholson thought he'd found the cause of Gulf War Syndrome. And it was a good guess — good enough to convince the government to do a placebo-controlled trial, on Gulf War Syndrome patients, of antibiotics suitable for mycoplasma treatment. Which, however, failed: the difference between the antibiotic group and the placebo group was not statistically significant.

I wonder for how long the placebo-controlled trial with atb run? My antibodies to mycoplasma pn. went down after 3 and 1/2 years on cap. If the trial was like those with cpn- for few weeks max., then what else would we expect?

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

Btw: Is it true Dr. Stratton thinks mycoplasma does not cause such serious problems as cpn and also it is more easy to treat?

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

Norman, If someone were to speak of David's life's work disparagingly, not knowing the story of Sarah nor all the persons helped by her's and  David's generosity,or the research and knowlege behind all of it, I would have to go to war for David's reputation. His knowlege has become a treasured friend and ally.  I feel similarly about the Nicolsons.When a Government (or anyone else, for that matter) has FACE TO SAVE, would you really trust the results of their "research'?  MSmom      

I was infected with both Mycoplasma Pneumonia and Cpn. After 10 days of intravenous medicine and 3 weeks of oral medicine my bloodtest was still positive for Mpn, but negative for Cpn.I have asked many doctors if Mycoplasma is easier or more difficult to treat than Cpn and most of them told me that Mycoplasma can cause all the same problems as Cpn, and it can be even more difficult to get rid off.Mycoplasma can be very difficult to treat. Unlike Cpn, it's not susceptible to Amoxicillin, and here in China, in most cases, it's not even susceptible to Azithromycin :http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/741844http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/51/2/189.abstractMycoplasma is not really a bacteria or a virus. It's the smallest known free living organism and it's quite unique. It differs from bacteria in the following ways:

  • It has sterols in the cell membrane.
  • It shares no DNA homology with known bacteria.
  • It has low guanine levels plus cytosine content.
  • Its genome has a low molecular weight.
  • It exhibits no reversion to walled forms.

and it differs from viruses in the following ways:

  • It grows on cell-free media in vitro.
  • It contains both RNA and DNA.
  • It has both intracellular and extracellular parasitism in vivo.

Even though it's extremely difficult to cure a chronic Mycoplasma infection or a chronic Cpn infection, it's not impossible. During the last couple of years i have had hundreds of conversations with TCM doctors all over China about chronic infections ( specifically Mycoplasma and Cpn). I have to say that most of the treatment protocols developed by these doctors only had limited success, but i know one protocol that has cured ( well, they are asymptomatic) 5 people i know with chronic Mpn and  Cpn- infections. It's a new  protocol, not the one i posted here a while ago and you can take it together with the antibiotics.

Shaolin, What's a TCM doctor?

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

From what I have read single atb is never enough for mycoplasma infection. It always has to be combination. Shaolin could you please share the protocol with us? I would be very interested in it... Mac TCM= Chinese medicine

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

Uh, actually I wasn't disparaging Nicolson there. (Though I did misspell his name; sorry about that.) I even called his guess a good one. If I'd wanted to disparage him, I'd have dredged up the stuff he's written and said about Gulf War Syndrome mycoplasma having come from a secret government biological warfare program, which they've killed people to cover up. Stratton, and David and Sarah, have never said anything remotely like that.

Anyway, the first author of the paper I linked to above is Sam Donta, who is otherwise well known as someone who has advocated antibiotic treatment of chronic Lyme. Not exactly the person you'd go to if you wanted a coverup.

Norman, if you stay on mono therapy for few weeks, mycoplasma will become resistant to treatment. This is common knowledge among pulmonary doctors in our country. So treating patients with doxycycline for whole 12 months does not make any sense. Even lyme and cpn becomes resistant on mono therapy during one year..

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

My impression is that long-term doxycycline is what Nicolson was advocating at the time, for treatment of Gulf War Syndrome. Indeed, I just looked at his website, and there's a 2001 article saying that

"The recommended treatments for systemic mycoplasmal infections require long-term antibiotic therapy, usually at least 6-12 months of doxycycline, ciprofloxacin, azithromycin or clarithromycin (36). Long-term treatments are required, because few patients recover after only a month's treatment"

As for mycoplasmas developing resistance in a few weeks on monotherapy, do you have any citations to experiments which have found that? Doctors say a lot of things, and don't always have good evidence for them.

Hi Lala

The protocol i am talking about is so effective in treating chronic infections because it's both anti-viral, anti-bacterial and antifungal. It downregulates nitric oxide (chronic inflammatory conditions are often a result of nitric oxide overproduction) and scavenges peroxynitrite and superoxide. The herbs in the protocol are also powerful antioxidants. For example, Honokiol and magnolol (constituents of the herb Hou Po)  are according to research approximately 1000 times more potent than Vit. E in inhibiting lipid peroxidation in heart mitochondria and 340 times more potent in rat liver mitochondria.

Here are the herbs:

Hou po ( magnolia officinalis)                            8g

Yu Xing Cao ( Houttuynia Cordata)                     20g

Di Fu Zi ( Kochia Scoparia)                                 10g

Huang Bai ( Phellodendron Amourense)            10g

Fang Feng (Saposhnikovia divaricata )                           10g

Da Huang (Rheum Palmatum)                            10g                   

Lian Qiao ( Forsythia Suspensa)                         10g

Mac, TCM= Traditional Chinese Medicine 

Shaolin, One of my friends IS one (he has a practice here in Chicago); he would be amused to learn I didn't know that!p.s.  The spam filter has gone mad.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Thank you, Shaolin. Did you take TCM protocol along the abx or alone?Btw: I too could not post reply to Norman two days ago. 

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

Also, what is the amount patient should take daily and how often?

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

Lala, here are the cooking instructions for the TCM protocol:1) Soak all the herbs (except Yu Xing Cao) in a ceramic pot for about 30 minutes. The water should cover the herbs by about an inch.2) Bring it to a boil, then let it simmer for 10 minutes with the lid on.3) Add Yu Xing Cao and let it simmer for 5 more minutes.4) Strain off the liquid and divide it into 2 equal portions. Drink it morning and evening at least 2 hours apart your antibiotics.Take the herbal medicine for 10 days, then take a break for 10 days. 10 days on and 10 days off. Repeat untill you are symptom free. 

Thank you, Shaolin. I guess the recipe is the dose for one day and I should prepare new pot for everyday?

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

Interesting article about Chinese medicine and superbugs from chinesemedicinenews.comFour strains of bacteria and one strain of yeast were used for antimicrobial tests. The test bacteria included Gram-positive Staphylococcus aureus — or the “super bug” — and Bacillus subtilis (under most conditions the organism is not biologically active and is one of the most widely used bacteria for the production of enzymes and specialty chemicals), Gram-negative Pseudomonas aeruginosa and acid-fast Mycobacterium smegmatis (the mycobacteria which cause tuberculosis and leprosy). Candida albicans was used as a representative of yeast.

What is super bug? Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA, often pronounced “mersa”) is a bacterium responsible for difficult-to-treat infections in humans. It may also be referred to as multiple-resistant Staphylococcus aureus or oxacillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (ORSA). MRSA is by definition a strain of Staphylococcus aureus that is resistant to a large group of antibiotics called the beta-lactams, which include the penicillins and the cephalosporins.The super bug is easily picked up by hospital patients with weaker immunity.

What is Pseudomonas Aeruginosa? P. aeruginosa typically infects the pulmonary tract, urinary tract, burns, wounds, and also causes other blood infections. It is the most common cause of burn and external ear infections, and is the most frequent colonizer of medical devices (e.g., catheters). Pseudomonas can, in rare circumstances, cause community-acquired pneumonias, as well as ventilator-associated pneumonias, being one of the most common agents isolated in several studies.

Three extraction methods were employed: (1) boiling in water for 1 hour, (2) maceration for 24 hours in water or (3) 80% ethanol at room temperature.Among all the extracts studied, the ethanolic extract of Hou Po, or Magnolia bark, demonstrated the most robust antimicrobial activities against the four tested viruses, equivalent to at least 50% of the activities of the standard antibiotics.Hou Po was most active against M. smegmatis, 20% more than the standard antibiotic streptomycin. The boiled extract of Hou Po had comparable antimicrobial activities to those of streptomycin.These data suggest that Hou Po may be a potential agent to treat infections caused by M. smegmatis (such as tuberculosis and leprosy) and Mycobacterium tuberculosis. It was reported that magnolol and honokiol exhibited antibacterial activities against methicillin-resistant S. aureus and vancomycin-resistant enterococci – the “super bug”. These results suggest a new discovery of synergism between magnolol and honokiol.Honokiol (厚樸酚) and magnolol (和厚樸酚) are the main constituents simultaneously identified in the barks of Magnolia officinalis, which have been used in traditional Chinese medicine to treat a variety of respiratory and intestinal disorders. The high antioxidant activities of the boiled and ethanolic extracts of the leafy materials were probably due to the extracted tannins and photosynthetic pigments. Hou Po is a rich source for antioxidative compounds, such as biphenols, polyphenols and tannins.The strongly aromatic plant materials, such as Herba Polygonis Hydropiperis, curry leaves and Hou Po, exhibited a broad spectrum of antimicrobial activities. One possible reason is the presence of essential oils and active polyphenolic compounds which possess antimicrobial activities.In conclusion, the researchers discovered that (a) the ethanolic extract of Hou Po had 20% greater antimicrobial activities against M. smegmatis than streptomycin; (b) the boiled extract of Hou Po demonstrated comparable activities to streptomycin (c) the synergism of magnonol and honokiol had comparable effects to those of streptomycin; (d) the aerial parts of rodent tuber had antimicrobial activities against S. aureus. Among the tested 107 extracts, Hou Po had (1) potent antimicrobial activities against S. aureus, B. subtilis, M. smegmatis and C. albicans and (2) highest antioxidant activities in DPPH assay regardless extraction methods.As such, Hou Po is likely a potential medicinal plant resource for developing effective antimicrobials and antioxidants.

Shaolin, I also live in China, are you close to Zhenjiang by any chance? Can you recommend me a doctor or a place where I can buy the herbs in Jiangsu province.I had successfully eliminated Cpn and got cured of my asthma for years but seem to have reaquired the infection after a recent long airplane trip. My mycoplasma titers also came high, recently.

azi, doxy,metro:daily