MediTest
27 Apr 2018
Author
Red
Title

High Dose Vitamin D as Alternate and Adjunct Therapy - My Own Experience

Body

 I know there are those who believe that the Wheldon or Sriram/Stratton CAPs are the only method for treating C. pneumoniae.   I do believe these treatments have and will work for many people with C. pneumoniae related illnesses, but, although I have no medical background, I also believe whole-heartedly that for some, other pathogens and other deficiencies may play an important role in their illnesses.   To me, this is just common sense, supported also by studies that have been produced in many of these diseases...

Comments

Thanks a lot Red for your posts here about D3. It really got my attention and I learned a lot. So started D3 myself and now I tell everyone about how good D3 is!

Glad you are feeling better, Maria

Cpn since sep 2006. Autoimmune thyroid,hypofunction.levaxin,b12+folic acid.All classic cpn,porphyria and toxinsymtoms.Not able to work.Selftreating cpninfection with AllicinMax(garlic), NAC, high vitamin D3. CAP for over 3 years. Back to work and life

Red, did you have regular lab test to monitor your vit D3 level iin order to ramp up accordingly? or did you just ramp with no  lab work for guidance. I am at 3000 of Vit D at night. 

Mphs, TN. CFS, hypoT (Hashi), adrenal fatigue, hormonal inbalance. right arm neuropathy-getting better. cpn, myco, EBV, CMV, HHV-6. Cap began in 6/07. NAC 2400mg, mino 100mg bid, biaxin 500mg bid. cytomel, flagyl bid continuously.

Red

Hi Sharon,

I actually have not had any Vit D3 test drawn to-date, mostly because there was no real clear testing guidelines (at least as I understood this).   But I think this is a good idea, particularly now that we have a good guideline for blood level ranges:

http://www.cpnhelp.org/importance_of_vitamin_d_p#comment-44341

And even a recommended home test kit:

http://www.cpnhelp.org/importance_of_vitamin_d_p#comment-44421

I have just sent in my first testing sample using the above test kit.   I hope to have the results back in a week or so.  I'd ideally like to see my 25(OH)D levels around 70ng/mL...

I can tell you though, that personally, it was at the 6,000iu a day level that I started feeling real improvements.   At the 8,000iu per day level, I felt even more, and at the 10,000iu per day level, I felt even more.   My dad has found that after a year of 6,000iu of Vit D3, the skin cancer that he was getting frozen off by his dermatologist on a regular has pretty much some to a halt even though he spends tons of time still in the South Florida sun.  His derm who was originally worried that 2,000iu he started taking 2 years ago was toxic has now said keep up the great work.   He has now moved on to 8,000iu himself.

It will be interesting to see what my actual blood levels of 25(OH)D really are and will post them once they are back...

Treatment for Rosacea

  • CAP:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NAC:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

Hi Sharon,  there is a self test kit available through this link;

Link to the test kits; http://www.zrtlab.com/Page.aspx?nid=12&action=view&category=14&partner=VitaminD%20Council 

I understand it is done by finger stick on blotter type card.  So not even a blood draw needed.

I am waiting for lab requesititions so that I can test after several months on the 10,000IU dosage of VitD3.

It might be interesting to see if the 3000IU is an adaquate dosage for you. 

Nice to see your post.   Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Red,

Thank you for your post confirming two of my physicians recommendationof VitD.  In May my VitD blood serum was was 29 (below optimal level), by Nov, with just 2000iu daily my serum level is now 65.  In November, one physican recommended increasing my dose to 4000iu.  In a few months we'll retest.

I also appreciated learning more about how your rosacea responded to the treatments, since mine too has improved.  It was terribly exacerbated by a course of a potent anti-viral, completed June 2007.  

ME. HHV-6, EBV, CpN, EV.  Valcyte (9mo.'07-'08).  4gr Valtrex (since Nov '08). 2400mg NAC + 200mg Doxy 8/08; added 250mg Azith 12/08; 1st Flagyl pulse 2/09. 6K Vit D.

This is great news for you Red.

It is an openess to new treatments that started this website & I hope we welcome this. My doctor has recommended my Lymes with a high does vitamin C incombination with many grams of sea salt.  I will start ramping this up once I am settled in AZ by the end of the month.  I will post the info about it for those with Lymes & see if I have the same good results the doc's son & wife have had.  I have to review a huge article & get a web link for here as well.

Keep up the good work on slaying the beast.  I take 8-10,000 D3 IU a day & 3 gms of NAC.  In addition to the abx so I am going in the right direction!

peace

 

CFIDS/ME, FMS, MCS, IBS, EBV, CMV, Cpn, H1, chronic insomnia, Chronic Lyme, HME, Babesia, Natural HRT-menopause, NAC 2.4 gm,Full CAP 6-2-07, all supplements+Iodorol, Inositol-depression, ultra Chitosan, L lysine Pulse#27 04-19-10 1gm Flagyl/day-5 days<

Hi Ruth,

I'm looking forward to reading about your salt + C experience.  I've read about that protocol and found it interesting.  

Will you be starting a separate blog for it?  

NAC 2.4g, Zith 250mg/MWF, mino 200mg, Tini 5day/1g/5 pulses, ValcyteSupplements, CFIDS/FMS, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBS, Sec Addisons Don't believe everything you think!  

Red,

What are we calling "high dose" for D these days? 

It seems to me that when I first talked with Stratton and read thru the supplement recommendations on this site, 2000 - 4000 ius of D3 are recommended along with CAP even though these amounts by mainstream would be considered "high dose."  

NAC 2.4g, Zith 250mg/MWF, mino 200mg, Tini 5day/1g/5 pulses, ValcyteSupplements, CFIDS/FMS, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBS, Sec Addisons Don't believe everything you think!  

Red

It's a good question, Reenie.   The old high dose is certainly not the new high dose!    

I have been taking 10,000iu a day for a year now, at least 8000iu a day for another 2-3 months, 6,000iu for another 3-4 months, and at least 4,000iu for over 2 years...

Treatment for Rosacea

  • CAP:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NAC:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

What I like about the topics explored and the primary topic for this group are for the most part head waters for the mainstream, the feeder brooks and tributaries that run clear and cold before the larger current and often poluted mainstream rivers of imformation.  Standardmedical thinking and the peramemter used by first line and older schooled practitioners are unfortunately manytimes 10 or more years behind the times in the conservative guidelines that they adopt.  I have watched certain segments of the patientcare system develop over a periodof forty years.  And my observations started at a time when I was young and vigorous.  I have always looked for the cutting edge of how to stay vigorous and applied much of the cutting edge information to myself over time.   I am very glad that I did,  even butter proved to be better than margarine (plastic butter).

One can take the very concervative road and wait until all the reasearch is done but you may be well to old and disabled to appreciate whatever the sanctioned changes become in another 10 - 20 years.  Yes I am glad that I took Vit D even the wrong type 40 years ago was better than not any at all.  Now we have options and with options the need for self education or strict reliance on the norms.    There is and always will be the old and the new of most therapeutics (except for ancient systems that are a whole other millieu). 

I am glad that such bodies of research can be reached via the internet, because I for one would not have had the energy and ability to seek it out myself.   Yes we all need to become well informedconsumers in the mist of much controversy and changing application perameters.  

Red

Thanks, WindyKnoll.  I too am so glad this research can be reached now via internet.   And I believe that had all the info on Vit D3 been available earlier, many, many people lost to horrible diseases like cancer, heart disease, etc might still be alive.   If only I started taking Vit D3 35 years ago when my symptoms really started to take off...

Are you currently treating for Cpn?    If so, and if you wouldn't mind, for what illness(es), and with what protocol?   

Thanks again, and take care...

 

Treatment for Rosacea

  • CAP:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NAC:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

What brand of D3 do all of you take?

Thanks!

Chris

CAP since 11/06 for Cpn, Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Myco P, CMV, HHV-6 infections.
Rifampin 600mg daily, Zithromax 500mg daily. NAC 2250mg daily. All other supplements. Now Bicillin LA 2.4 mil injection weekly.

I had been taking KAL Brand it is an older manufacture and produces some harder to find supplements at decent prices.

I switched to Carlson's at the suggestion of my Inergrative Practitioner, said that it was cheaply priced and good quality.  Also this is what I was taking and when I could not get my level up as desired by my doctor.  So since I could get Carlson in the 2000IU D3 dosage locally I decided to change.

I do use some NOW products, I pick and choose and read the labels and whether it is offered as a tablet or capsule or softgel.   Some tabets sit hard on my stomach so I prefer capsules or soft gels for my application.

I'd like to hear about brands that others feel are reliable in their dosages.  Generally it is not difficult to take multiple small VitD3 soft gels.  Cost comparisons from strength to strength is a good thing to do.  We take many supplements and they all add up significantly over time.    Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
Red

Hi Chris,

I and almost everyone I've recommended Vit D3 to, just use the Vitacost, NSI brand since it so cheap, and they've just reduced the price by another $2 (how great is that?):

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Vitamin-D3-2-000-IU-300-Capsules

I assume based on my reactions (or lack of reactions now) that this brand is doing the trick, but I'll know for sure once my test results come back...

Treatment for Rosacea

  • CAP:  01/06-07/07
  • High-Dose Vit D3, NAC:  07/07-11/08
  • Intermtnt CAP, HDose Vit D3:  11/08-01/09
  • HDose Vit D3, Mg, Zn: 01/09-

So wonderful to have so many options to consider, thanks Red, seems we are getting a lot of data and information located together. 

Chris, thanks for asking the question.   Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

I have really been pondering the information you presented in this post as it relates to my daughters situation/infection.  I think one of the things that triggered my daughter's current decent to chronic illness was when she began taking Vitamin D 2000IU at the beginning of September 2008.  I think the pathogens in her were brewing and causing her trouble ever since the mono infection in spring 2007.  It it took Vitamin D (and the ensuing die off it caused) to get things to a point that we sought medical help again for why she was feeling so awful. 

As I have stated in other posts, my daughter does seem to have a great deal of trouble with secondary porphyria.  I think the Cpn infection has been causing porphyria for her long before she began treatment.  I think when she began the Vitamin D supplements, she unknowingly triggered even more porphyria.

Once I realized Vitamin D was a problem for her I reduced her daily Vitamin D dose down to 400 IU for several weeks.  I have slowly been adding 400 IU at a time to her daily supplements.  Yesterday, I raised it to 1600IU.  Well my daugher has been feeling alright the last few days (not bad, not good) so I was suprised when she sent me a text message this morning while I was at work telling me she felt horrible. I was surprised but then remembered that I had raised her Vitamin D again.  I can't help think there is a connection.

The antibiotics don't seem to give her as much trouble as NAC and Vitamin D.  We have added the Doxy 200mg and Azithromycin  without her seeming to notice but increasing Vitamin D and NAC always seem to cause a change  in how she feels.  So Red your statment "Since it elevates the production of our own broad spectrum antimicrobial peptides,  and these antimicrobial peptides have been shown to have activity against a host of bacteria, fungi and viruses, I believe that in addition to Cpn, this helped me slay some additional pathogens."  really hit home because it makes me think she is fighting more than CPn -- maybe chronic epstein bar.  

So where do we go from here....well I think for now we will continue on the CAP.  She sees the doctor again next week and we will discuss when to begin flagyl.   I will definitely cut back on her Vitamin D again because it seems she also cannot handle high doses of Vitamin D at the same time as CAP.  It makes sense though to pursue high doses of Vitamin D once she has plateaued on CAP and her secondary porphyria is no longer the issue it is currently.  I really appreciate the information you have shared here. 

 Maria

Mother of a teenage daughter with cpn infection. Symptons include migraine, muscle aches, chronic fatigue and brain fog.  Currently taking 1800mg of NAC, 200mg doxycycline, 250mg azithromycin MWF, pulsing flagyl, armour 60mg, 100mg trazodone, iron supplem

Maria,

Your post is a really great explanation on what is most likely happening when someone adds more D into the mix.  It's one of those posts that I'll be referring folks to for an explanation.  Thanks for sharing.   Image removed.

NAC 2.4g, Zith 250mg/MWF, mino 200mg, Tini 5day/1g/5 pulses, ValcyteSupplements, CFIDS/FMS, Hashimoto's, Psoriasis, PA, IBS, Sec Addisons Don't believe everything you think!  

We get our D3 at the Vitamin Shoppe.  They have Carlsons and Vitamin shoppe brand in 2000IU.  It's sales tax-free if I go up to the store in DC!  We're in the process of going from 7000IU daily to 9000IU daily and wanted to know if there are any negatives associated with greater amounts?  I come and go from CPnhelp and I feel like a missed a huge discussion.  It's like all the sudden there's a vitamin D board and folks are taking huge amounts of it.  Was there a paper I missed?  Kim is getting ready for her first MRI since initiating ABX.  She hates the contrast stuff.  Ken

In pursuit of ABXDon't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be

Ken, Kim's Vit D Rx from Vanderbilt made me sit up and take notice when you reported on that part of her treatment plan.  I am sure that you have found all the more recent articles that are being added to the website.  I found your comment about a vitD board quite humorous. 

You have not blogged about the video shoots on Kim's Video journal recently.  Perhaps after the up comming MRI and visit you might be willing to share an update with us here.  Your posts are always entertaining as well as informative!   Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise,

You tellin' me this is a circle?  This thing I don't understand was started by me?

We never did use the D2, but I do remember a lot of posting about D2 and D3, OMG, that was a while ago.  I need to find new articles.  This D thing has taken on a life of it's own.  How did you get your sig to 4 lines?  Wow!  Kim had to shorten hers to make it fit on 2 lines.  I just have the impression that there must have been a major journal article about vitamin D.

Walks are going well.  Kim is taking them seriously like a track meet sorta thing.  She stretches and twists to get ready.  I post all this at TIMS and I try to not get in the way of Kim's telling her story here.  She's settled in at about 5 seconds +/-.

I've read that some folks are shooting for 100 as a level for D, yes? no?  So, right now I'm reading a huge paper about veins and MS (Thanks Marie) that's so far mostly history and I just can't keep up and then I start a thread on a completely new board to try and share Kim's experience and I get bogged down in a discussion about epilepsy drugs that suck the vitamin D out of you ....... Maybe I take all this too seriously.  I really do care.

Ken

In pursuit of ABXDon't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be

Ken, Answer to first set of questions. Kind of yes and no.  No you did not use the D2 version but the level recommended by her MD was enough for me to start looking at the topic.  Seems it was a good while ago and I thank your post for letting me know that Kim's neuro was taking VitD seriously, I guess that I found that helpful information and increased my interest for more knowledge.  Also Red was talking and sharing a few articles and papers here and there.  The topic just sort of drifted in as topics do here yet a topic with supporting information, that is always a key motivator for me to consider options.

If you post in your personal blog the question of the signature I will try and answer there for you, not to clutter this thread.   Again I would like to chat as about the video recordings a bit more and will if you blog so we can have our conversation there. 

I am under treatment and yes for me personally the target is 100 doctors instruction.  I have been working to get levels up for a year now and have tested in a series.  Will be blogging about my next result soon, have been on D3 10,000/day since end of October and then will share the resulting MD conversation.  Testing can now be done by self through the VitD council site.  Read all these current Vit D3 threads, they should bring you up to speed.    Interesting about the Epilepsy drugs and VitD3 depletion.  It was years before it was known that taking mineral oil for a laxative or even using is frequently on the skin ( this include vasoline) depletes fat soluable vitamins of which Vit D is one!

Hope you are thrilled with all this extra reading now available.   Louise

 

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise,

It's a nice feeling to have been helpful.  Thank you.  I don't blog here because Kim has a blog here and I don't want to be in the way of her telling her story.  I think this also falls under "The Caregiver Rule"; don't do stuff that undermines independence.  So I have a thread, which is effectively a blog at TIMS.  I'll have a follow up conversation with Dr. Sriram about Kim's D levels.  I have a lot of catching up to do.

Ken

In pursuit of ABXDon't Allow What You Know To Get In The Way Of What Might Be

Maria- what you report with your daughter and Vitamin D matches with my experience with my own daughter. She's in a similar situation, about the same age, and for various reasons not under treatment for Cpn. In the fall I started her on 1000units D3 daily. When I tried to bump it up to 2000units she felt awful within a couple days. I knocked it back to 1000 units, but even this may be cumulatively contributing to her feeling worse, as her secondary porphyria is pretty bad. I think with folks who have high bacterial load or are early in the treatment, the impact of even modest Vitamin D dose should not be under-estimated. Some of the reports of people having a hard time in the CAP need to be evaluated with regard to how much D they are doing.

This is a great post, thank you Red for sharing this.

Image removed.

 I wonder what type of vitamin D3 people are using. Seems most on this thread have mentioned the OIL caps (fish and soybean oil).

I've read elsewhere that some folks are using Twinlabs Vitamin D3 - Allergy Caps (designed specially for fish and fish oil allergic individuals). This is the alternative I've seen to using the oils. This guy mentioned using the allergy D3 caps instead of the oilwith better success (he also has also some good information on Vitamin D as does Ken Lassesen at lassesen.com)

I wonder if some of the benefit is coming from the EPA/DHA from the fish oil?

 

BH

Doxy 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFS since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

Jim, thanks for sharing about your experience with Vitamin D as it relates to your daughter.  It certainly validates what we have experienced with Vitamin D use.

It is fascinating to me how a supplement that I would have not thought a moment about six months ago could have this type of impact on my daughter. She was in such a heap yesterday.  I know she spent the whole day on the couch.  I don't think she could even read she felt so bad.  She got about 12 hours of sleep last night and seems much better today -- thankfully.  She is up and about and willing to tackle her school work.  So lesson learned, we will go very slooooooooowly with the Vitamin D.

Maria

Mother of a teenage daughter with cpn infection. Symptons include migraine, muscle aches, chronic fatigue and brain fog.  Currently taking 1800mg of NAC, 200mg doxycycline, 250mg azithromycin MWF, pulsing flagyl, armour 60mg, 100mg trazodone, iron supplem

Maria here is where things can get tricky.  Dear Daughter is now about 2 months into the progression of the CAP if I have my dates anywhere near correct.  If this is true, those of us who have been watching the site for well as long as I have anyway, 18 months have seen that folks who have been on the first two abx and going along doing OK all of a sudden about 8 - 12 wk mark take a sudden turn towards feeling "horrible".  Not to deminish the thought or the possibility of the effect of the increase of symptom being contributed to by the increase in D there is also this other aspect of time spent on doxy and azythro combo even if D dosage had not been changed or not up to the recommended starting dose of the suggested  supplements levels.  

So also think about modest amounts of Glucose tablets at the time of complete exhaustion at this point in addition to the moppers.  Thisinitial phase of treatment can be a difficult period during CAP for those with high bacterial loads.  My first six months were harder than before I had started treatment and I did not know what I know now (not uncommon).  The Tini or the Flagyl can wait a bit longer if she is still so fragile from my perspective.  Incremental changes in everything is prudent or it was for me in early treatment phase.

Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise, my daughter takes glucose before meals.  Do you use glucose to give youself an energy boost in addition to fight porphyria?  I was thinking of getting some calcium pyruvate to see if that would give her an energy boost especially in the late afternoons.

Yes, I also wondered if her down turn yesterday was just part of treatment.  She is going to have bad days at this stage in the game no matter what so I will have to expect that.  It is nice to see her today much more like herself.  She was laughing with and teasing her younger sister this afternoon which is always a sign that she is feeling okay.   Yesterday, her mood was foul and she had absolutely no interest in socializing with any of us.  It is reassuring that for whatever reason yesterdays "horribleness" did not last too long.  It is certainly nice to hear her laugh. 

Maria

Mother of a teenage daughter with cpn infection. Symptons include migraine, muscle aches, chronic fatigue and brain fog.  Currently taking 1800mg of NAC, 200mg doxycycline, 250mg azithromycin MWF, pulsing flagyl, armour 60mg, 100mg trazodone, iron supplem

Personally I did and it would bring me improved (OK not perfect) but better not completely exhausted.  So I have heard have used it before meals because of nausea is that the case with your daughter? Why before meals for her?  I would have taken again two or three glucose tablets, which equals 5gms each or about 10 to 15 gms in an energy slump which what I may think could be what she was talking about when "feeling awful"? For me doxy caused lots of gastric distress is she OK with doxy from the ingestion prespective?  That is wonderful and the way it is for lots of people just not me early on.  I worked around how to get it past my stomach once past it no problems with abdomenal symptoms.  I might say I would be towards the extreme in this reaction just for those reading that have concerns.  I always take it in the middle of a full meal, breakfast and supper and have little problem with that much food which includes fats and protein foods.  It is rather variable and energy (therefore humor in my situation)could disappear amazingly quickly, like night and day. 

So she sounds like she is riding the wave of the ups and downs and that is really what the early days are about for some of us.

Glad to hear she is better today.  Re -read the Syptoms and Reactions page again, print it out for yourself and do a check list from time to time when things come up.  Porphoria, low blood sugar both at time respond a modest amount of glucose.

Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise, I believe I read somewhere on this site that glucose should be taken about ten minutes to a half hour before a meal in order to prevent new porphyns from being made.  Someone please correct me if that is not right!  So she is pretty good about taking the glucose tablets (three big ones) before she eats.  She wants me to find some Smarties because she is getting sick of the big tablets!  It is good to know that glucose might be able to give her a quick energy boost when she needs it.

Doxy does make her nauseous if she takes it on an empty stomach so she takes it with lunch and dinner.  She has so little appetite when she wakes up in the morning that she doesn't eat enough to take it with breakfast.

Maria

Mother of a teenage daughter with cpn infection. Symptons include migraine, muscle aches, chronic fatigue and brain fog.  Currently taking 1800mg of NAC, 200mg doxycycline, 250mg azithromycin MWF, pulsing flagyl, armour 60mg, 100mg trazodone, iron supplem

Red