High cholesterol due to cpn?

One question - I restarted cap 3 weeks ago with rifampin and azithromycin. Since restarting cap my cholesterol rises. Is there a connection between die-off or cpn and elevated cholesterol?

I think someone wrote about this connection , but I can t find it.

 

Before my cholesterol levels were ok.

Cesare- The connection comes from what we know about Cpn biology and some anecdotal observations some of us have made. Cpn has to steal cholesterol from the host cell membrane in order to enter the cell and maintain it's inclusion membrane inside the host cell. It is thought that cholesterol lowering drugs like statins also have antichlamydial effect by denying adequate LDL cholesterol to inclusion forming EB's. If they can't enter they can't replicate. Anecdotally, some of us have noticed that as our Cpn load has come down our cholesterol has dropped. My own, anecdotal, hypothesis is that there is some feedback system where lack of adequate circulating cholesterol for cell membranes and other important body functions, because it sucked up by Cpn inclusions, causes increased liver cholesterol production.

I'm not sure why it would rise since starting the CAP, since you should be reducing the load and freeing up cholesterol for normal cell functions, but maybe it takes time for the system to gear down. A good reason to use cholestyramine!

http://www.chlamydiae.com/docs/biology/biol_entry.asp

http://ieg.ou.edu/ASM2006/data/papers/D_199.htm

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2006/0241174.html

 

 

CAP for Cpn 11/04. Dx: 25+yrs CFS & FMS. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BID, restarted Tini pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Thanks Jim !

I have been on cap for 8 months and my cholesterol was ok. I had to take a break due to clostridium difficile for 2 months. I restarted my cap three weeks ago with Rifampin 600 and Atzi .500 per day (High dose because of bartonella coinfection). Maybe the three weeks were to short to bring the cpn load down. Furthermore if the liver upregulates cholesterol due to endotoxin I think it doesn t matter if cpn and / or bart is destroyed. Both produce endotoxins when beeing killed. This makes sense at all because my cholesterol was ok when been on cap before.

Anyone else experienced the same?

 I found an older thread in this forum by marie. If I understood it correctly the liver upregulates cholesterol to protect against the endotoxin

Well well. There I am working along and I come across this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16466690&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum

This new paper is talking about how the low density lipoprotien is used by the body to protect itself essentially from endotoxini. This is interesting. I have high cholesterol, if you count 254 as high in your book. Don't know my Ldl's off my head or my triglycerides, but another angle to the heart materials
marie

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http://www.cpnhelp.org/ldls_and_cpn

Male 38 years (Germany),CFIDS, IBS, Enterovirus, Cpn and Bartonella, Dientamoeba fragilis positive. Started Cap on 02/19/08, Currently taking Bactrim, Flagyl, soon adding Malarone and Clindamycin for suspected protozooa. 

My cholestoral has been around 265 for several years, but my doctor always remarks on my excellent ratio of HDL and LDL. Now that I am between full and intemittent protocols, it will be interestin to see if anything has changed. My complete physical is late this month. I will post results and D level.

Rica

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Jim,

Thanks for the links. Seems that the preferred form of E is then delta-tocotrienol. I've been taking Gamma for some time.

My last test showed my LDL was high. Total was about 180. It used to stay about 130-140.

Is anyone out there supplemting the Delta form of E?

Doxy 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFS since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

Actually seems my Gamma E has some delta in it:

 

Jarrow Formulas, Gamma E 300, 120 Softgels

 

Mixed Tocopherol Complex
Vitamin E (d-alpha Tocopherol)
Gamma-tocopherol
Delta-tocopherol
Beta-tocopherol
50 IU (34 mg)
300 mg
100 mg
7 mg

 

I believe the recommendation sheet here had alpha-tocopherol @ 400 units twice per day according to Wheldon.

Should that be ammended to Delta or at least mixed tocopherols?

I forgot why I though I needed Gamma. Probably a CFS recommendation somewhere.

Doxy 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFS since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

There has been some discussion here, before, of tocotrienols as anti-Cpn agents. But for that, you need a particular type of tocotrienol (I forget exactly which), and need to take it without tocopherols.

Here is the link for delta fraction tocotrenols.

You want the straight Delta fraction toco--not a mix. iHerb has a good price on it.

I take 4 caps a day (400 mgs). This is the type of E that helps prevent Cpn from using choloesterol "rafts" to invade the cells.

Hope this helps.

Raven

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

Raven,

Thanks, I'm a big Iherb fan also. One day I'll post a picture of my supplement cabinet for chuckles. Have you noticed that you feel any different since taking it?

 

Doxy 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFS since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

It's good to take the regular tocopherols too as they have various beneficial effects, but if you are taking tocotreinols for cholesterol and/or anti-chlamydial effect, you need to not take them at the same time. Tocopherols cancel this particular effect of the tocotreinols. It's very confusing, but note that the words are similar but not the same. So take one form in the morning and the other form in the afternoon, or some such seperation.

 

CAP for Cpn 11/04. Dx: 25+yrs CFS & FMS. Currently: 250 aithromycin mwf, doxycycline 100mg BID, restarted Tini pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3, 6mg Iodoral

Hi Bio, it's hard to say if the Toco E has made a difference as I take so much stuff. But after reading about it in the Life Extension magazine and hearing about Dr. Anthony Azenabor's explorations of it regarding Cpn, I began to take it.

I had to laughImage removed. when you said you would post a pic of your supplement stash. I am looking for a large cabinet to house my collection as it is taking up a big roll out drawer in the kitchen that I could use for food.

Raven

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath