Dr Martin Pall and the NO/ONOO theory

I recently discovered the work of Dr Martin Pall and am wondering why nobody has discussed it here much due to the fact his theory could be part of the whole CPN dillemma. I have read some of his work, along with DR Paul Cheney's work and think it is truly amazing. I find it to be a potentially huge break through in my mind. I would like to hear why others believe his theory or disbelieve it. 

So I'm posting a link here for people to look at and hopefully  will give this serious consideration as it may relate to CPN. http://thetenthparadigm.org/ Novel Disease Paradigm Produces Explanations for a Whole Group of Illnesses

 Dr paul CHeny http://www.dfwcfids.org/medical/cheney/heart04.part1a.htm

 

I can say personally that I have experienced the effects of Nitric oxide in my body from Caffine, provigil, Horny goat weed, Arginine, maybe wellbutrin. They all seem to have the same effect on me where I get spacy, wired, and weird.

 

I have started with some supplements that suppose to "down regulate" the Nitric oxide, or scavenger the peroxynitrite and am impressed with the improvement in symptoms of fatigue and anxiety, etc.... Anybody else belive in this stuff?? I'm really excited about it.

 

One of the things some find most amazing is in Dr cheneys work he mentions that people with CFS have low Uric acid levels, lower than he has ever seen. he also mentions that Uric acid offsets peroxynitrite. (Peroxynitrite causes cell damage.) He also mentions that he has never seen somebody with gout have MS at the same time. (gout is created from excessive Uric acid) So the take away is maybe Uric acid could provide protection from MS? I'm going from my terrible memory, so please confirm.

 

ANother thing.  the Peroxynitrite can affect NK cell activity? THere is a lot of good info in those two links if you folks take the time to read them.

 

He has explainations for all them major problems. like depression, anxiety, NK cell function, elevated cytokines, mitochondrial disfunction.

http://books.google.com/books?id=z7sNIUBkfhAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=explaining+unexplained+illnesses#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

Have a look. it's good stuff but very technical.

enjoy

Mark

Dr. P has me wearing nitroglycerine patches to raise my NO levels, to force down hydrogen sulfide. Lead accumulates in sulfur pathways. Raising NO level can cause die off. So I guess there is no one size fits all treatment in regard to NO.

minocycline, azithromycine, metronidazole 2007-2009, chelation for lead poisoning, muscle pain, insomnia, interstitial cystitis (almost well), sinus, dry eyes, stiff neck, veins, hypothyroid, TMJ, hip joints (no longer hurt)

Hi Janice, 

I agree that no ones size fits all. I finally "get it" after 25 years the only way I am going to get better is to experiment on my own. Because everybody is so different it seems impossible to find a magic bullet for a one size fits all that works. My improvements have come from CAP and supplements, but I am beginning to think I may be able to get more relief by continuing to tweak this stuff for my body. It's really about listening to ones body, and it is very hard to do. Many times I can't tell if I am getting better or worse from something. 

However, I am really happy to finally grab on to the Martin Pall theory and pursue it. It really seems right for me. I can change my mind later, but intuitively it feels right based on my body observations. I can't understand half the stuff I read in these research papers, so I need to rely on what feels right. Ituitivly It feels like he has something figured out relating to NO and peroxynitrite., but I am not sure if it is exactly what he thinks.  However, I am trying to read the studies and I have found clues here and there about why this fits me and what to try to improve myself. I have incorporated a few things lately and my energy, and mental focus seem to be improving more.  

 I am happy to have found out about CPN, becuase without it, I would still being laying in bed all day with my head spinning. Addionally I am happy to have found this website because of the commentary from people who I perceive as being "in the know" about health. So I just try to kind of tag along and hope I can find a few bits of info that helps my situation. The CPN protocall has helped tremndously for me, but it doesn't seem like the whole picture at this point.

 I have seen every doctor in the book and just finally discovered the benefits of vitamins thru my most recent doctor. The vitamins make a difference for me, but it takes effort I am finding to take the right vitamins, at the right times, and the right ammounts.

For me, I can absolutely say NO has a role in my illness.  My symptoms are very clear for increased NO and I have observed this over at least 4 yrs from my coffee drinking and green tea drinking ways. I'm now thinking that I may have increased excitotoxicity from the NO, based on some bits of info I have picked up. However, NO can make me feel good at times and somehow maybe my body is not using the NO I have correctly. I suppose It is possible that I may have some sort of eNOS problem where I don't produce enough NO for what I need and create to much peroxynitrite when I start getting enough NO?? I don't know about the NO, YOU KNOW?....but the NO seems to be a big player in my illness weather it is good or bad or miss regulated somehow. I seem to think this is a biggy at the moment. I finally put two and two together after the NITRO patch, horny goat weed, caffine, arginine, provigil and then reading this theory which seems to be another piece to the puzzle.

I am riding high at the moment. I hope this is the missing piece in my situation.

Mark

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

for the scientific types, here is a study that fascinated me.

The results of this study show that NO was overproduced by thermal injury and decreased during the days after burn injury. The decrease in rats treated with thymus and sulfadiazine was higher than the others. These data indicate that thymus oil may serve as a protective agent to the damaged tissues by decreasing the NO level. Histologic examination results show that the formation of new tissue in rats receiving thymus oil was more than other burned groups, and this finding supports our hypothesis. 

 http://journals.lww.com/burncareresearch/Abstract/2003/11000/Role_of_Thymus_Oil_in_Burn_Wound_Healing.13.aspx

 

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

The chemicals involved in that NO/ONOO cycle are all short-lived, and short-acting. A self-destructive cascade of them would be over quickly. He needs something else in the cycle -- something with a longer timescale -- to really have a chance at explaining chronic illnesses. Something like, say, an infection, which the body is constantly producing NO in order to fight, but which the body never quite manages to clear.

   Marc, it's really amazing and should be read again and again not to miss any detail. I read Dr. Cheney's work and started to read Dr. Pall's theory. I believe it's complementary for CPN theory ; putting CPN infection as driving force for chronic peroxynitrite formation and resulting nerveous tissue damage. As we all assume immüne system is overstimulated to fight against CPN, synthesizing much amounth of NO which helps to limit infection while giving harm to neighboring nervous tissue.

  I couldn't find anything related to NK cell activity, but hope to find it at following pages.

  I do plan to make some modifications in my diet and supplements to limit peroxynitrite formation.

  yılmaz.

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Norman,

At the end of the book Dr Pall mentions he theory has "not received critical scruntiny in order to test their merit" I guess he just got a bit! thanks.

Regarding the NK function, Yilmaz. If you look at my first post for this forum topic in the link for the "google books" post at the very first entry you can find it on page 62. You have to scroll thru the pages becuase my link didn't come up with the page 62 I guess. It is under "exibit 3.1 explanations for symptoms and signs" is where you want to look. He provides explations many symptoms and signs to the excessive peroxynitrite.

 

I bought the book and am mostly thru. It expensive and most of the info contained in the book seems to be available on the "tenthparadigm" website. The google book looks to have the whole enchilada. The dr Cheney website, interprets Palls work and ads to Pall's work. Dr Cheney's wirting seems easier to read, but both seem useful to me. I found a bunch of supplements I would like to tweak based on what I have learned.

 

The B-12 shots seem to help, and I am already taking those. There is a supplement package that Dr pall has created that I may try and can be bought on Pro-health i think. It has everything covered and may make more sense instead of buying all kind of seperate supplements. However, I would like to try some stuff individually to see what each one does if I can disapline myself! It is hard to do though and takes time.

 

Mark

 

 

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

  I did email Dr. Pall several years ago and he was quick to respond to my questions and very kind.  Some of the actions to be noted by Dr. Cheney seem to be exactly what is happening to me and maybe still so.  I have had an extensive blood testing period of one year just before I started with Wheldon's CAP and found many things.  My NK cell percent is quite low and I have very high antibody counts for Whooping Cough, Measles, German Measles and a few others.  For the most part they are all problems which should show up in a 5 year old not a 49 year old.  I do not have any of the children's infections but did so over forty years ago.  One's immune system has a very good memory.  As Dr. Cheney mentions a Th1 to Th2 shift could cause these results.  My Tetanus Anti-Toxoid test is very high also.  I will retest for them at the 18 month period of being on CAP and look for changes.  I have been on CAP now for 9 months with noticeable improvement, blood tests still show very high IgG and IgA antibodies for Cpn.

Just some things that might apply.

Cpn, Mycoplasma, Chronic EBV, M.S.(MRI, Spinal Tap-greater than 5 oligoclonal bands and VEP), PANDAS(OCD). Wheldon CAP (started 12/08), Azithromycin/Clarithromycin(12/09), Lithium, Lamictal, NAC(2.4g/day), D3(15,000IU/day)

 Moxy, did you tested for lyme and what was your test results. Dr. Stratton thinks that CPN might be the responsible pathogen causing decreased NK cell count. (But there is no research about this)

  yılmaz

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Kerem,

  I did test for Lyme disease and it came back negative. 

Epstein-Barr was positive, very high EBNA-over 600 with a 21.9 or over being abnormal. 

Cpn results were very high for IgG and IgA antibodies, tested every three months or so with no change for the last 18 months.  On Wheldon CAP now for 9 months. 

The NK result was 4% with a reference range of 4-25% being normal. 

Thank you for the response Kerem.

Cpn, Mycoplasma, Chronic EBV, M.S.(MRI, Spinal Tap-greater than 5 oligoclonal bands and VEP), PANDAS(OCD). Wheldon CAP (started 12/08), Azithromycin/Clarithromycin(12/09), Lithium, Lamictal, NAC(2.4g/day), D3(15,000IU/day)

  So your NK result seems to be at the lower limit of normal range. Do you have have NK cell count also? (when you say that 4% what does it mean? 4% of what?)

  yılmaz 

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

This is the description Kerem of the NK test as defined by Quest Labs:

 

Natural Killer Cells:

Lymphocytes, Absolute:  1998        Reference Range:  850-3900 uL

Natural Killer Cells:

CD3-/CD16+CD56 %:  4%      Range 4-25%

 

Cpn, Mycoplasma, Chronic EBV, M.S.(MRI, Spinal Tap-greater than 5 oligoclonal bands and VEP), PANDAS(OCD). Wheldon CAP (started 12/08), Azithromycin/Clarithromycin(12/09), Lithium, Lamictal, NAC(2.4g/day), D3(15,000IU/day)

 ok moxy, there is no CD-57 count here which was important for me.

 yılmaz.

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

The CD-57 is a service provided by LabCorp, Inc.  I don't think that Quest Labs provides that service.  The CD-57 is still considered "experimental", not "evidence based" maybe not considered medically indicated to be done.
  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

  I did take the CD57 test and it was through Quest Labs.  I will try to find it and post, the results were somewhat low but not as much as my NK % test results. 

The Quest Lab number is 903155.

CD57 and CD57 ABSOLUTE

Cpn, Mycoplasma, Chronic EBV, M.S.(MRI, Spinal Tap-greater than 5 oligoclonal bands and VEP), PANDAS(OCD). Wheldon CAP (started 12/08), Azithromycin/Clarithromycin(12/09), Lithium, Lamictal, NAC(2.4g/day), D3(15,000IU/day)

For those with MS I found this article that may be of interest and may relate to Martin Pall's theory.

 

maybe I need a strong peroxynitrite scavenger,

Uric acid, a natural scavenger of peroxynitrite, in experimental allergic encephalomyelitis and multipleImage removed.sclerosis

 

"Uric acid, the naturally occurring product of purine metabolism, is a strong peroxynitrite scavenger, as demonstrated by the capacity to bind peroxynitrite but not nitric oxide (NO) produced by lipopolysaccharide-stimulated cells of a mouse monocyte line. In this study, we used uric acid to treat experimental allergic encephalomyelitis (EAE) in the PLSJL strain of mice, which develop a chronic form of the disease with remissions and exacerbations. Uric acid administration was found to have strong therapeutic effects in a dose-dependent fashion. A regimen of four daily doses of 500 mg/kg uric acid was required to promote long-term survival regardless of whether treatment was initiated before or after the clinical symptoms of EAE had appeared. The requirement for multiple doses is likely to be caused by the rapid clearance of uric acid in mice which, unlike humans, metabolize uric acid a step further to allantoin. Uric acid treatment also was found to diminish clinical signs of a disease resembling EAE in interferon-γ receptor knockout mice. A possible association between multiple sclerosis (MS), the disease on which EAE is modeled, and uric acid is supported by the finding that patients with MS have significantly lower levels of serum uric acid than controls. In addition, statistical evaluation of more than 20 million patient records for the incidence of MS and gout (hyperuricemic) revealed that the two diseases are almost mutually exclusive, raising the possibility that hyperuricemia may protect against MS."

 

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=18479

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

 Thank you Mark, it's really very interesting and may be helpfull especially for those who doesn't respond CAP well.

 I would advice to people here to screen their uricacid levels whether to see any correlation between MS and uric acid levels.

 yılmaz.

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Hi Yilmaz, Norman, and all.

FOund another good one related that may relate to the whole NO-ONOO theory. I read "lifeontheice" story and she had some success with Statins and pushing her MS into remission along with the CAP. Her story made me think of doing a search on Statins role in the NO-ONOO theory. Here is what I found.

Adverse Balance of Nitric Oxide/Peroxynitrite in the Dysfunctional Endothelium Can be Reversed by Statins

"Vascular endothelial dysfunction is a complex phenomenon that might be caused by a deficiency of nitric oxide (NO) and an overproduction of peroxynitrite (ONOO-). This study used a nanotechnological approach to monitor the in vitro effect of statins on the [NO]/[ONOO-] balance in normal and dysfunctional endothelial cells. NO and ONOO- were measured by electrochemical nanosensors in a single human umbilical vein endothelial cell (HUVEC) treated with atorvastatin or simvastatin for 24 hours in the presence or absence of 50 μg/mL oxidized-LDL. An imbalance between [NO]/[ONOO-] concentrations was used as an indicator of endothelial dysfunction and correlated with endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) expression. Ox-LDL induced dysfunction of the endothelium by uncoupling eNOS. NO concentration decreased from 300 ± 12 to 146 ± 8 nmol/L and ONOO- increased from 200 ± 9 to 360 ± 13 nmol/L. The [NO]/[ONOO-] balance decreased from 1.50 ± 0.04 (control) to 0.40 ± 0.03 for cells co-incubated with ox-LDL. Treatment with statins reversed eNOS uncoupling, induced by oxidized-LDL and significantly increased the [NO]/[ONOO-] balance to 1.2 ± 0.1. These results demonstrate that statins can restore endothelial function by increasing eNOS expression, decreasing eNOS uncoupling, reducing the ONOO- level (nitroxidative stress), and shifting the [NO]/[ONOO-] balance towards NO."

 

THIS IS WHAT I WANT, shift my balance towards NO and away from OXIDATIVE STRESS:

"These results demonstrate that statins can restore endothelial function by increasing eNOS expression, decreasing eNOS uncoupling, reducing the ONOO- level (nitroxidative stress), and shifting the [NO]/[ONOO-] balance towards NO."

 

I also recognize that my body seems to cold, cold hands and feet etc when I drink caffine.... But NO is supposed to dialate blood vessells. WHy would I have cold feet when NO is supposed to raise circulation? NO is used in foot creams for diabetics, so one would think that more NO would make me warm? the abstract below makes me think that I have "eNOS" problem maybe.

Mark

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

Apparently Dr Paul Cheney disagrees with the above statment. here is a quote from an interview with Cheney.

 

Dr. Cheney replies: "Well, you need to eat reduced cholesterol. What is reduced cholesterol? It's found in unprocessed cheeses, butter, and raw milk. When you process these things, you oxidize the cholesterol. [It's no longer "reduced".] If you don't have a source of exogenous cholesterol [i.e. the unprocessed cheese and butter made from raw milk, mentioned earlier], you excessively oxidize your own endogenous cholesterol. Both are bad —consuming processed forms of cholesterol and excessively oxidizing your own cholesterol.

The cholesterol elevation associated with Coronary Artery Disease (CAD) is not the cause of CAD; it's reflective of it. That's why treating cholesterol is a misapplication of therapy [statins] to the wrong thing [cholesterol]. You're treating your defense mechanism [cholesterol], as well as being in big trouble later down the road. Why? Because statin drugs lower CoQ10 levels. This generates yet even more peroxynitrite; at the very time, you're reducing your defense [cholesterol] against it [peroxynitrite].  

That's a prescription for disaster. And you know what that disaster is in the published medical literature? People on statin drugs actually die of many cancers faster than people on placebo. The Harvard study said that in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1996. This was also reported in animals on statin drugs. That's why, although there was a 3% improvement of death rate from CAD in the treated group, the net mortality was identical to the placebo group because those on statin drugs died of cancer more often than the placebo group. So there was no net gain. You just traded out what you died of. And if they'd followed the study out 10 years, they would have seen more Parkinson's disease. However, they ended the study at five years.

They have also seen rhabdomyolysis [destruction or degeneration of skeletal muscle tissue accompanied by the release of muscle cell contents into the bloodstream resulting in hypovolemia (decrease in the volume of the circulating blood); hyperkalemia (the presence of an abnormally high concentration of potassium in the blood); and sometimes acute renal failure] in all the developing statin drugs, resulting in one being recalled. I suspect rhabdomyolysis is involved by CoQ10 deficiency produced by the statin drugs.

 

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

  Marc, thank you for allthese usefull links. I'm trying to get Dr. Pall's book. Is there any information about statins and  cholesterols(LDL,HDL...) effects on NO/ONOO CYCLE. In Dr. Cheney's conversation there was some statements claming that statin treatment is a mistreatment and may give harm rather than benefit.

  yılmaz

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

Don't recall anything Yilmaz and there is nothing in the index. I found that information from Dr Cheney your speaking of and posted it above. Isn't this a fun puzzle, one study says one thing, and another says another thing. 

I'll give a dollar to the first one who cures everybody! Well, probably a heck of a lot more than that.....Somebody

will crack the CPN puzzle soon.

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

  ''Isn't this a fun puzzle, one study says one thing, and another says another thing.''

 It's always the same in medical issues.

   yılmaz.

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

this post is significant because it describes eNOS for the  endothelial function which is basically Nitric oxide use in the body. This makes sense to me. would this be why I have othrostatic intolerance???

 "significantly improve endothelial function" sounds good to me!

 

High-Dose Folic Acid Improves Endothelial Function in Coronary Artery Disease, Independent of Its Homocysteine Lowering Effect

Reference:

"High- but not low-dose folic acid improves endothelial function in coronary artery disease," Moat SJ, Madhavan A, et al, Eur J Clin Invest, 2006; 36(12): 850-9. (Address: Department of Medical Biochemistry, University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff, UK).

Summary:

In a study involving 128 patients with coronary artery disease (CAD), supplementation with high-dose folic acid (5 mg/d) was found to significantly improve endothelial function, independent of its effect on lowering plasma Hcy levels. The study involved several separate studies. In one study - the folic acid study - subjects (n=84) were divided into 3 groups. One group received 400 microg/d folic acid, a second group received 5 mg/d folic acid, and the third group received a placebo. In a second study - the betaine study - subjects (n=44) were divided into 2 groups, in which one group received 3 g b.i.d. betaine and the other group received placebo. All treatments were given for a period of 6 weeks. In the third study - an in vitro study - the effect of folic acid on endothelial function and endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) dimerization in isolated rabbit aortic rings and cultured porcine aortic endothelial cells (PAEC) was investigated. Results found that subj ects who received supplementation with folate at either 400 microg/d or 5 mg/d had significant increases in plasma folate and significant decreases in plasma Hcy, while only subjects who received 5 mg/d had significant improvements in flow-mediated dilation - a change which was independent of the reduction in Hcy. In the subgroup of subjects who received betaine, a significant impairment in flow-mediated dilation was found, despite a reduction in plasma Hcy. Results of the in vitro studies found that folic acid reversed endothelial dysfunction and promoted eNOS dimerization in PAEC. These results suggest that supplementation with high-dose folic acid, which has been shown to improve endothelial function independent of its effect on plasma Hcy levels, may be of benefit to patients with CAD.

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

One of the functions of nitric oxide is to dilate blood vessels and allow for more blood flow. Viagra, for instance, works through the NO pathway. So, in that abstract, when they talk about improving endothelial function and enhancing eNOS, they mean increasing the amount of NO.

To quote Steven B. Harris on this subject:

... free radicals are different from each other, and not all are bad things in all circumstances. Nitric oxide (NO.), for example, is a very important molecule in your body, and it has two faces-- one nice, one not so nice. Too little, and your vessels clamp down, your blood pressure rises, your gut suffers lack of oxygen and lets bacteria into your blood, and your infected tissues never get the white cells they need to control your infection, and keep it local. White cells never come. You die. Too much NO, however, and your DNA comes apart, your cells blow up, your capillaries leak, your systemic blood pressure bombs out, you go into shock, and you still die. You'd like something in between, please. Some here, some there. Not so much over there. There are many nitric oxide synthase enzymes, some constitutive, some not. Keep the ecNOS, hold back a little iNOS (except in my gut), and for Heavens sake, don't activate *all* my bNOS.

Why the two-edged sword? The reason is that over time, free radicals have been so much a part of the damage and inflammation process, that your body has learned to mimic and even deliberately produce them, in order to produce inflammation where it is needed. You NEED some inflammation to both fight infection, and heal. The trick is generally to keep it local. But all that inflammation is mediated by oxidation and free radical signalling processes. So the question is ever: how much is best? Not too much, not too little. And it depends on the circumstances. Antibiotics on board? Is the local process getting out of hand? How much healing do we need, and how fast? Is the injury from trauma, or infection, or age-related degeneration? Is the patient young or old? We don't have all the answers, but surely "stomp out as many free radicals as you can, all the time," is not one of them. NF-kB is not there because God hates you and wants you dead. Nature did not give you COX-2 so you could have arthritis pain. And although you'd think so to read some books, superoxide isn't made by your mitochondria only so you'll have wrinkles when you're 50.

Norman, BINGO!  

From your posted quote above:

"You'd like something in between, please. Some here, some there. Not so much over there."

 

Dr Paul Cheney had his heart replaced and his problems went away.

 

Addtionally, Dr Martin Pall believes the NO/ONOO cycle can be local  to certain organs. so that could explain why everybody acts so differently when infected with the chlamydia pneumonia.

 

Seems to fit to me, maybe my body is shutting off all NO to help protect some parts of my body that are infected, while other parts are starving for NO. That is how I feel with cold hands, feet, extremities, and cognitive disfunction.

Thanks for taking the time to dig up that very relevant bit of information.

Mark

 

 

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

   So it looks much rationale to use peroxynitrite scavengers rather than NO scavengers. Non of us knows exactly whether we have over production of NO or not. But its probable that we all have over production of it due to immüne stimülation by CPN toxins and fragments.

  yılmaz.

KEREM'S TAKECARER;

Suspıcıon of MS (transient nystagmus during conjugated gaze on february 2008, blepharospazms and some optic complaints on february 2009-no plaque on MRI), Vit D3 started 400 IU and elevated to 2000 ıu ın 40 days.

how timely. good stuff.

 

 

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,  

The way how chlamydial CHSP60 can cause atherosclerosis. http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/short/83/4/768

Stratton/Wheldon protocol 02/2006 - 10/11 for CFS and many problems 30 years

I have recently been using Witch Hazel which is supposed to be the strongest of the Natural peroxynitrite scavengers. I've taken it about 10 times. Hard to say it did anything most of those times. Yesterday I was feeling very awful in the AM, low energy, low mood. And within 10 min of taking one dropper if the WH in water I felt much much better. I think timing is critical for certain supplements. I took this not too long after breakfast (10am) seems to be working better for me around this time.

Doxy 100mgx2, Azithromycin 250mg MWF, Probiotics: PB8, JarrowDophilus. CFS since 2003. Last 5+ years lots of the usual research (Depression, Adrenal Fatigue, HPA, Mercury, Candida, Thyroid, etc.). iherb.com $5 coupon code: HAW103

I have tried some rosemary extract, which is number two on the list you posted earlier for scavening peroxynitrite, and can't say I have felt anything. I will try it next time I think I'm having a chlamydia flare up.

 

Also, I tried some "high dose folic acid" based on one of the studies, earlier in this thread, for "improved endothelial function". I took 1600mcg in the am, and 1600 in the afternoon. About an hour after taking the second 1600mcg of folic acid I had a strange chest pain. I perceived this pain as being a BAD reaction to the folic acid (I can't always tell if I have porphyria, endotoxin, or excitotoxicity, or chlamydia flare; based on a one off observation I think it was a BAD chlamydia flare up).  I then took one capsule of VIT C and one Capsule of Magnesium. The chest pain seemd to go away after the Magnesium and Vit C had 30 minutes or so to work.

 

CPN off the charts, EBV, Chronic fatigue 20+ yrs, , tinittus, Orthostatic intolerance, adrenal fatigue, excitotoxicty, porphyria, anxiety, depression, doxy, AMOX, and FLAGYL since JAN 2009,