14 Jun 2019
Author
Markus83
Title

Any scientific evidence for substances working against aberrant bodies?

Body

I would like to know if someone knows about research papers looking for substances against the AB-form of the Chlamydia, whether prescription drugs or OTC. Does anyone have some information?

Is the recommendation of metronidazole as part of the Wheldon protocol based on scientific evidence or just based on plausibility?

Comments

Markus83

14 Jun 2019 03:07 pm

Thanks, I'll read through it. Indeed Tinidazole is the only drug which gives me substantial relief while I'm on the 5 day-pulse and 3 or 4 days after it. But then all symptoms come back stronger then before.

Normally, I would say I'll take Tinidazole for a longer period or even full time. I tolerate it quite well, no herxes or side effects. But I'm scared because of the possible cancer inducing effect, which has been shown in vitro and animals at least for metronidazole. So I would be more pleasant to try out other things with scientific evidence or plausbile explanations first. If nothing works, I'll have to take Tinidazole...

scott63

19 Jun 2019 02:38 am

Very good question, and quite impressed that you read this patent application so carefully to find this claim about INH!  This patent application was initially filed in 1996 (23 years ago).  If INH (and the other isonicotinic acid congeners cited by Stratton in this application) had been confirmed as agents suitable for killing the cryptic form of cpn, then I would expect it to have appeared in the scientific literature since then.

Metronidazole and tinidazole belong to a class of antibiotics known as "nitroimidazoles".  They are actually prodrugs (i.e., the active form is generated inside the bacterium) and their mechanism of action is rather unique.  Here is a review article:  https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/73/2/265/4565576

Stratton recommends that even patients taking antibiotics need to take taurine as well (this was communicated to me privately by Stratton).  He indicated that taurine is converted to N-chlorotaurine by neutrophils and other immune cells which can kill the EB and RB, but did not mention any effect on the cryptic form.

I am not sure that I will ever be able to advance my treatment to the stage of pulsing with these azole antibiotics.  I live in Sweden (I am not Swedish), and the doctors here will not even give me azithromycin (I have endured tremendous suffering over the past few months)!  So, for me, a natural alternative to the azoles would be a savior.

Kiki

19 Jun 2019 05:55 am

Hi Scott63 

I'm Swedish but live in the UK. Don't despair- no GP would help me here either but Sarah showed me the way this year and so far I've since 7th of Jan followed the medication protocol plus about to embark on my 5th pulse in a few weeks time! Speak/email Sarah please!

Kiki💖

Markus83

19 Jun 2019 03:06 pm

Hi Scott,

I can't remember that I've seen any study looking for substances against cryptic Cpn, whether pharmaceuticals or naturals. Even for metronidazole there is no published evidence (at least which I know of) apart from Stratton's patent. But maybe Stratton changed his view on Isoniazid, I don't know, because the patent is quite old. Until now, he has not replied to my email.

I'll talk with my GP who has huge experience with chronic infections if he has ever used ISO before and what he might think about doing trial & error with 4 weeks of ISO.

scott63

19 Jun 2019 04:33 pm

As I understand it, the cryptic form of Cpn is an anaerobic state without active protein synthesis, and that is why metronidazole is used.

I read this article on anaerobic bacteria:  http://www.antimicrobe.org/b77.asp  It states: "Four groups of drugs are active against almost all anaerobic bacteria of clinical significance: nitroimidazoles, carbapenems, chloramphenicol, and combinations of β-lactam drugs with a β-lactamase inhibitor (ampicillin/sulbactam, amoxicillin/clavulanic acid, piperacillin/tazobactam)."

Chloramphenicol is too toxic for use, but the carbapenems should be okay.  So, it is really a question for the experts (Wheldon, Stratton) on whether or not carbapenems would work for cryptic Cpn.  Your question about ISO as a possibility is still a valid question as well.

Markus83

19 Jun 2019 04:46 pm

Carbapenems are out because they don't work intracellular. They are expensive and have to be given iv, too (and are last line for gram negative infections). So pretty good arguments not to use them for Cpn, I think.

I've tried a lot of herbal medicine (Buhner's protocol) but I think it does not work for chronic Cpn, at least in my case.

neenavyas

22 Jun 2019 02:11 am

Dear Scott,

are you the same person who wrote me an email asking for a reliable source for antibiotics from India? Well my regular chemist has agreed that I could give you his email and then you could correspond. I couldnt explain to him why you wanted the antibiotics and for what purpose and what quantity. I will shortly forward you his email.

Neena

I am 76 years old. My daughter-in-law was diagnosed with MS and we are all very keen for her to start this new antibiotic treatment. We hope to be able to do this in the next couple of weeks by finding a doctor willing to deal with any issues like reactions that may crop up. My daughter-in-law is 43 years old.

I have been an active poilitical journalist most of my life and have felt for a long time that there must be a cure out there for MS which the medical community has largely ignored. I am very excited by the Wheldon protocol.

neenavyas

24 Jun 2019 05:32 am

Hi Scott

but I thought you wrote to me that for some reason your membership of this site is awaiting approval. I have talked to my retailer chemist from whom I have been buying all the Medes for my family fir last 20 years without any problem. I will ask him and send you his email so that you can communicate directly and figure out a way to get the men's from India if needed at all.

best for improved health

Neena

I am 76 years old. My daughter-in-law was diagnosed with MS and we are all very keen for her to start this new antibiotic treatment. We hope to be able to do this in the next couple of weeks by finding a doctor willing to deal with any issues like reactions that may crop up. My daughter-in-law is 43 years old.

I have been an active poilitical journalist most of my life and have felt for a long time that there must be a cure out there for MS which the medical community has largely ignored. I am very excited by the Wheldon protocol.

scott63

24 Jun 2019 05:58 am

Thanks Neena!  My membership here got approval about a day or so after I wrote to you.  Also, Sarah has kindly provided me with a source for antibiotics.  So, hopefully I can soon start to get better.

neenavyas

24 Jun 2019 06:23 am

dear scott

thats good news as long as you get your melds from a reliable source. Best wishes for the arduous but exciting journey ahead.

neena

I am 76 years old. My daughter-in-law was diagnosed with MS and we are all very keen for her to start this new antibiotic treatment. We hope to be able to do this in the next couple of weeks by finding a doctor willing to deal with any issues like reactions that may crop up. My daughter-in-law is 43 years old.

I have been an active poilitical journalist most of my life and have felt for a long time that there must be a cure out there for MS which the medical community has largely ignored. I am very excited by the Wheldon protocol.

jean2

19 Jun 2019 05:03 pm

coptis and scute? They are two of Buhner's herbs.

I think I have a severe case of cpn,in the brain which I got about 8 months ago (Oct. 2018).  

I have a lot of issues with depression, balance, eyesight, ear and teeth problems.  Most important, I have brain shrinkage, and some strange symptoms of that. Does anyone share these issues?

jean2

19 Jun 2019 05:52 pm

as particularly beneficial? 

Also, has anyone ever looked at the benefit of taking products for chlamydia vs. chlamydia pneumoniae? In other words, can curing chlamydia help/cure chlamydia pneumoniae? 

Thanks in advance.

Jean

I think I have a severe case of cpn,in the brain which I got about 8 months ago (Oct. 2018).  

I have a lot of issues with depression, balance, eyesight, ear and teeth problems.  Most important, I have brain shrinkage, and some strange symptoms of that. Does anyone share these issues?

scott63

20 Jun 2019 03:31 am

Hi Jean,

I am a little biased against herbal remedies.  In cases where the "active ingredient" has been identified, it always seems that the potency is weak.  In other cases, there does not seem to be convincing scientific evidence to support the claims.

There is one "herb" that I would recommend trying: garlic!  There is substantial evidence for antibacterial activity.  Does it work to kill Cpn?  The doctors will not prescribe antibiotics for me.  So, I take garlic (raw garlic, not the dietary supplement tablets).  It is definitely doing something because I begin to sweat profusely.  Before the infection with Cpn, I also ate raw garlic and it did not cause me to sweat at all.

I see that some on this site also take charcoal powder to assist in the clearance of toxins from the colon.  I have been taking potato starch (1 cup suspended in water every day) for a few years as a "cure" for rheumatoid arthritis and it is much more effective than charcoal.

Markus83

20 Jun 2019 03:48 am

Read Buhners book about Lyme disease, there is a chapter about Cpn it it with the available scientific evidence. However, I did not profit from the herbs until now, the only thing that has worked so far is tinidazole, which I started again today.

@Scott: In my opinion you need abx, whether you travel to Germany and let it prescribe you by a doctor, or wether you use a online pharmacy from Sarah. I'm always thinking that Germany isn't a free country. But if I hear what's going on in Sweden, it seems even worser than Germany.

scott63

20 Jun 2019 05:23 am

Hi Markus,

Thank you!  You seem to have a sixth sense about things in this world.  You are absolutely correct that I need antibiotics.  I have vasculitis in my fingers, feet, and lungs, and it is getting worse.

About 3 weeks ago, I was in the hospital for 3 nights at USÖ.  I really thought that they were finally going to conduct the diagnostic test for Cpn and prescribe antibiotics.  What transpired came as an absolute shock to me.  The internal medicine doctor examined me and concluded that I was suffering from a psychiatric disorder because I had so many different symptoms.  They wanted to conduct a psychological exam, but my wife became very angry and we left immediately.  Yesterday, we get a call from Social Services.

Markus83

20 Jun 2019 06:24 am

I wouldn't take NAC without antibiotics (I can't tolerate it anyway, likely because of histamine release). It's been shown in a mice study, that the mice fed with NAC (after being infected with Cpn) had much higher bacterial load and more severe diseases than the control group. The study is linked somewhere here... But I'm only a layman and don't know what experts like DW or Stratton would say about taking NAC without abx in case of suspected active chronic Cpn.

Sarah

20 Jun 2019 08:17 am

Markus, David and I both take NAC every day as an aid to stop reinfection.

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

14 Jun 2019
Markus83