Fasting and CPn

Hi everyone,

I posted a long intro a while ago, but it seemed to have gotten lost. Will post one again soon, but a brief summary: I dont have MS as far as I know (nothing visible on MRI), but neurological problems, cognitive problems, something resembling Parkinsons, even though I'm only 30. This will be confirmed soon, waiting on some test results. It appears I have CIRS / mold illness, along with CPn, chronic sinus infections (likely MARCoNs).

Since I'm dealing with many issues at once, Im interested in therapies that treat multiple things. I've found a fair few in my research, and will share them with the forum as I post more soon (you all have most likely heard of most of them anyway, but maybe not!). But something I've been wanting to do for a while, but havent been well enough probably, is a fasting mimicking diet.

So just wanted to ask - does anything know if a fast for 5 days would make CPn worse or better? For the record it would be a "fasting mimicking diet" from Dr Valter Longo's lab, the product ProLon, which mimics water only but provides food. Type "Valter Longo regeneration" into youtube and plenty of good videos come up describing the quite remarkable results.

Here are my current thoughts:

Pros: - There are many, many pros to this. But the big ones for me - regenerates the immune system. Boosts neurological function and cognition. Improves blood lipids, etc. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4509734/ - I don't have MS as far as I know, but they found this specifically helped MS https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4899145/ - Im seeing a doctor for CPn next Teusday. Will run this by him too of course, but not sure if hell know about these fasting interventions. Im thinking it could be a good chance to do the 5 day fast before being on the ABX for 1.5 years at least, and not being able to do it then (cant take drugs with the fasting diet, interferes with bodies regeneration program, etc).

Now for the cons: - I can imagine the lack of glucose would drive the CPn into the cryptic state - In the regeneration of the immune system, it appears it gets weakened then rebuilt. 30-40% of your white blood cells have to die off (and then are regenerated from stem cells). I'd be concerned that the CPn would take advantage of this intial weakening.

After writing those cons, Ive pretty much convinced myself its not a great idea. But im still interested in hearing from anyone whos done anything similar, or a water fast. And since they seemed to have such good results for MS (i think in one animal study 20% of the rats were completely symptom free) I thought some people here might be interested!

Oz man, I wouldn't fancy fasting at all, but if you want to force brackets, type /p surrounded by two angled brackets. When you press 'save' this should disappear to be replaced by the desired paragraphing.

Like here!
Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Ah thank you Sarah! My post is kind of readable now :)

Chronic sinusitis, neurological and cognitive problems. Gotten more severe recently.
CPn, mould exposure, likely Lyme
Roxy, supplements, red/infrared light, cholestyramine. Will start pulsing tini again at some point.

I'm always confused by these 'MS' studies with rats, because the rats are given a 'disease' that mimics MS, but isn't MS, and then these treatments purport to cure it. So, the treatment cures fake MS. How is that helpful? As for dieting, many of us have been treated successfully without modifying our diets at all. It's the antibiotic therapy that fixed us, not our diets. You're killing a bacteria. With a medication (or three).

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

MacK ... 🤔 Do you believe in reincarnation? Of course we can not know the answer to whether it is true or not. We really just do not know. I tell you what I do know. In the next life, I'm coming back as a mouse just in case I get MS. There'll be no end of fixative cures for me. 😜. G.

“Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

―    Abraham Lincoln

I couldn't agree more with the rat studies vs human aspect. However they have found the fasting mimicking diet effective in human trials of MS as well. I think it's most likely due to autophagy and apoptosis of damaged cells (or in this case, CPn infected cells) and immune system regeneration.

They found a ketogenic diet helped as well, but a single round of fasting mimicking diet was more effective than 6 months on the ketogenic diet. So it seems quite powerful for MS, like it is for many conditions. One rather crazy study found it even caused growth of new pancreatic insulin producing cells in Type 1 diabetes, which is something I haven't heard anything else do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVArDzYynYc

Chronic sinusitis, neurological and cognitive problems. Gotten more severe recently.
CPn, mould exposure, likely Lyme
Roxy, supplements, red/infrared light, cholestyramine. Will start pulsing tini again at some point.

Ozman! :) I keep on thinking about this fasting for 5 days... it is not the first time I hear the theory, and it has its logic... though... Fasting and Antibiotics... I would say a big NO. You do not want to put your body under all this stress... It is funny you mentioned strong reaction on NAC... I read somewhere (in this website) about this NAC test... if you are having flu symptoms, then probably your body is infected... I have seen as well a movie: 'Brain on Fire'. It is based in a real story from a girl who had literally her brain on fire and no signs of evidence in any MRI nor test. If you decide to fast for 5 days... be careful... maybe a GP and a Nutritionist could advise you better...

Gisel·la

(ONGOING PROTOCOL: 1 year and 2 months following Stratton/Wheldon Protocol)

MS Diagnosed: 21.IX.2016

 

Thank you Gisella for the comment! I've come to the same conclusion that fasting + antibiotics is a bad idea (i was pretty sure of this, but talking to the fasting researchers I follow, they confirmed this).

But it most certainly IS something Ill pursue at some point, probably after the CAP.

I've heard Dr Valter Longo say that fasting may turn out to be similar to sleep - something where we thought nothing was happening, but is actually a co ordinated natural self repair time. I think in particular, it was a time where the body cleaned out dysfunctional cells.

I think this would include intracellular infections. Even if not, it has been shown to regenerate your immune system, so would help it fighting them off after the regeneration period, anyway.

However - I'm not sure it'd be that effective with CPn. I've read enough about how CPn adapts to so many different conditions and cues, and simply goes into a persistent state at this point. For this reason its one of "the most successful human pathogens". :O Its as if the researchers... admired it!

I must say, when I read that, I was more inclined to describe it in other words....

Chronic sinusitis, neurological and cognitive problems. Gotten more severe recently.
CPn, mould exposure, likely Lyme
Roxy, supplements, red/infrared light, cholestyramine. Will start pulsing tini again at some point.