Can anyone tell me if this is Chlamydia Pneumonia? ETA Pics directly to post

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Ill come back and post my whole story soon.. but it is long and I am short on energy and time trying to research this while raising a family.

 

I am sick of the doctors not being able to figure out what is wrong with me.. so I purchased my own darkfield microscope after going to a Live blood analysts who said she saw t.gondii and maybe strongyloides in my blood.  I did a cleanse and felt better then I had in years, but as soon as I come off of it or eat too much sugar my system goes haywire.  I knew there had to be something else.  My primary issues are gastro related tho.. so I didnt even know to look at Cpn. My secret is tho, Ive always known if I keep going to a Rheumy Ill get an MS dx.. I have symptoms.. but I didnt want to face them. and they are just weakness, tingling and balance right now..

I didnt even realize these things were odd in my blood cause they are in my husband's too.. but noticed they werent mentioned in any of the live blood analysis pics I could find.. and then I started watching them closer.. and literally, these itty bitty flecks, which I think are CPN would hijack the cells before my eyes.  Over a period of two hours while the blood is still alive, you can watch them systematically take over almost the entire slide.

 

So I searched all kinds of terms and hit the image from doctor stratton on this site.

 

It looks an awful lot like what I have here.. Can anyone weigh in?  Ive already called stanford, tried to email David Wheldon at the only email addy I can find for him.. and been to several doctors who laughed in my face or tried to treat me for allergies :)

Couple more videos
Right after pricking my finger..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z39ZSaT_NQs

33 minutes later
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TtD9PhxN6s

 

THANK YOU in advance!


ETA PICTURES

 

For reference

Dr Stratton's Image

DrStratton

My Pictures

pic1

 

 

2

Invagination?

Invagination?

 Only other thing I found that looked kind of like the others..  Burr cell?  Echinocyte?  I found lots of uric acid crystals too in my husband's where I found this.  I havent found this more elongated and evenly spiculated cell in my own blood.

5

Welcome Sadie - and probably husband

Fascinating!  Read - as it seems you are doing.  Start both of you on NAC and the other supplements, then on abx - see DW's lists.  It is not a shot in the dark!

Rica

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

In the interests of time - while you were still on - I wrote a very short note, but want to add another:  you have by now probably seen Dr Charles Stratton's slides (our front page).  Yours, to my untrained eye, look identical.  It is very exciting that you found us, and I hope that you begin abx very soon, thereby escaping a future that could be much more dismal than where you are now.

Rica

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Rica,

I cant get anyone to listen to me.. so I feel so frustrated right now.  I have seen them.. they are a dead on hit, right? Ive looked at every other bacteria and pathogen I can find a pic for and I cant find anything that looks like Cpn does.

And if I wasnt convinced by the looks.. what it does convinces me.. how it takes over a cell

SeriousSadie, 

I was just looking at the images of RBC's you posted and I would guess that the cause of the spikey RBC's is Crenation. Essentially, when you have the whole blood under the cover slip you can see the cells flowing around in the plasma. As the water in the plasma begins to evaporate the isomolar concentration of the plasma increases drawing water from the cell shrinking it. The shrink wrapped cell takes an astercyte shape from the skeletal protiens protruding out. When, I first imaged my blood, I noticed simlar malformaties in my RBC's and after some research I found I could counter act the process by changing my slide prep. 

Eoin

You'd do better to send Serious a private message.  S/he hasn't posted on this site in a year and a half.  (The photos went up a couple of years ago.)

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

I agree, but if this new member actually wants to reach SeriousSadie with the info, it's likely that a pm is the way to go (and then, only if SS has notifications set up regarding new private messages). 

I wasn't thinking of removing the post, just offering Eoin a way to share his info with SS, as it appears Eoin is a very serious camera person (google the screen name - some nice stuff there).

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Ill start just dumping all my pictures and videos here.. Jumping on while dinner is cooling, Ill be back later this evening to explore the site more.. there is alot of information, which is wonderful.. and daunting.. Ive already researched everything from map bacteria to tropical diseases ;)  so my brain hurts and this looks like the most in depth one yet!  I just needed to post this as soon as possible because it feels crazy to think I really see this in my blood.

I believe the first pic above is the EB entering the red blood cell circled

http://i47.tinypic.com/34pn7rt.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2pu0je9.jpg

Fasinating.  Well done you.  I have had video microscopy done twice.  I think the interpretation is hard.  Those cells remind me of sea mines - all spikey. 

May i ask which country you are in - perhaps you should offer a service with this?  Here in the UK it is i think frowned upon.  I dont know any   one that does it here that also is a prescribing doctor - they have all been closed down.  Po - x

Female UK. High EBV, CMV. In winter 12/13 waslow Lyme and Cpn-tx'ed 6mths. Sept 13 -ve lyme, +ve erlichia, bart &Yersinia, starting tx for co-infections also aspergillus

Potatohead, there are people who do live blood analysis here in the United States.  I paid 155 to sit down for an hour and have someone look at my blood, but she has no prescribing priveledges and is not a doctor.  She suggested some herbs which I took for 90 days.  THEN, I switched to olive leaf and progesterone and added a small amount of unrefined sugar back in my diet and all hell broke loose again, quickly, with my stomach.  It literally was paralyzed for days.  And the dizziness.. wow, the dizziness.

 

Anyway, Ive been twice to the analyst and she is evasive.. cause here in the US, it isnt FDA approved.. you can only do "nutritional analysis".  I dont know that they are trained well enough to see something like this.  So, wanting the whole picture.. I bought my own scope.

 

 

 

D W

The rather bright, stippled round cell at ten o'clock in the first clip is, I think, probably a small lymphocyte. (back in 1973 as a resident pathologist I used to do manual cell-counts using phase-contrast microscopy and supra-vital staining.)

D W - [Myalgia and hypertension (typically 155/95.) Began (2003) taking doxycycline and macrolide and later adding metronidazole. No medication now. Morning BP typically 110/75]
D W

I've no experience of dark field examination of the blood as a diagnostic tool; it sounds implausible. Blood contains many artefacts which are probably shreds of old red-cell envelopes; these can resemble bacteria and protozoa. If you had visible parasites in your peripheral blood you'd be very sick indeed, and visible bacteraemia would be incompatible with life. Look up 'live blood analysis' in Google.

D W - [Myalgia and hypertension (typically 155/95.) Began (2003) taking doxycycline and macrolide and later adding metronidazole. No medication now. Morning BP typically 110/75]

As implausible as it may sound, I do indeed see this. I've looked up live blood analysis.. But I don't care about sites like quack watch because I've seen it with my own eyes. Theses little flecks trying to penetrate cells. Those are the bacteria. I know science teaches everything must be stained.. But I think we are missing so much info. So, you can't really speak to the pics I attached which are much clearer then the video? They look just like dr strattons slide. I was going to go to the university library tomorrow and see what images I can find in books.

MacKintosh.. I figured that.. and its dashing to believe he doesnt think you can see something like this when Im actually taping videos and taking pictures of it.

I know that pathologists are trained to think live blood is useless.. but ...they look just like the pic called EBsonRBCs on this website.  I cant find that in Dr Stratton's slide deck.. can anyone tell me where that image came from?

I just typed chlamydia pneumoniae into google images and found a ton of photos.  Maybe you can scroll through them and find it, or something similiar to it. 

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

I've combed through google images and find only the ones here and on Townsend letter that are definitely c. Pneumonia. I called a best friend from Hs whose husband is a pathologist and pleaded my case. He is skeptical but interested.. So maybe I'll have luck there. I was thinking of taking the print outs to one of the local university pathology departments tomorrow and just walking and and seeing if anyone will talk to me.. Hah!

Hi Sadie

Po again.  I have very bad fatigue and spent 20 yrs trying to find out what was wrong.  I thought it was a particular virus and spent yrs (wasted?) down that route.  Now i think it is Cpn and Lyme and feel pleased that i am started on this tx protocol.  Whether or not i am right i am doing a 6 mth trial and then will re-assess.  The thing is for me to move forward and not waste any more time.

 

Presumably you are ill  with fatigue or MS.  It certainly does appear that you have bacteria that should not be there (in just my humble opinion).  Although what you are doing is fasinating, I wonder if your priority is to improve your health and whether you now have done enough to consider just trying the NAC challenge and/or the weldon protocol based on what you have shown.  The NAC challenge test is so cheap and easy to do as per the getting started tab on the top.

Po

x

Female UK. High EBV, CMV. In winter 12/13 waslow Lyme and Cpn-tx'ed 6mths. Sept 13 -ve lyme, +ve erlichia, bart &Yersinia, starting tx for co-infections also aspergillus

Sadie, if you really are serious, I would do as Potato head suggests and just get on with treating yourself.  You seem to think that you know best: well, you don’t and you are wasting valuable time by messing around with dark field microscopes, which if they are good, don’t come cheap.  Generic antibiotics are cheap, though and you could be well on the way to being cured by now.................................... Sarah

A Journey through Light and Shadow

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

I'm sorry if I came off wrong. I'm just very frustrated. I don't think I know "best".. I just very much do see something happening on a microscope I can't explain that lead me to the picture on your main website. I see little particles and maybe they aren't bacteria.. But I just wish someone had some other explanation then that what I'm seeing isn't real.. It very well may not be Cpn. I'll trust the experts on that. Maybe so many things can look the same on microscope. But I don't wish to treat myself or husband yet for something if it doesn't feel 100% right.. So I'll definitely keep reading. 600 mg Nac brought horrid headaches.. 1200mg yesterday brought headaches, balance issues and exaggerated my muscle weakness. Don't really want to do that again so I'll back off to 600 and keep reading about why I could be reacting this way. Thank you for all of your advice!

Dear Sadie,

I don't think is that easy to detect cpn in blood. 

Please have a look at the link below.

http://www.asthmastory.com/bloodtest/



 

MMHHPP

RRMS since 2010. Asthma sufferer during  2008-2012 - Free of asthma since started  Wheldon protocol- october 2012 doxy 200mg, Azytrom 3x week, NAC 1200g day and vitamins-  January 2013 started Flagyl pulses. i s

A healthy body does not react to NAC.  The type of reaction you describe is what we call 'NAC flu'.

Once you have read the handbook, Dr. Wheldon's site, the 'Patient Stories' here and the 'Getting Started' section, then use the forum to ask questions about what you've read and how to proceed.

 NAC flu is a reliable, non-medical test for cpn. If you feel like the flu is coming on after trialing NAC, you almost certainly have cpn.  (I say 'almost' only as a disclaimer.) 

We all understand the excitement of finding 'the answer'.  We've ALL been through it.  It's thrilling and  a huge relief to find a website that might be the answer to our own medical mysteries.  You just have to  slow down and take a deep breath and realize  nobody got sick overnight (it takes years), so  a few more days or weeks of studying cpn and learning about it and implementing treatment slowly  is not going to make a huge amount of difference in recovery.  This is going to be a long process;  you can afford to go slowly.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

Sadie

You may have your answer:  from what I have gathered over the years, there is no known bug, with the exception of C.Pn. that reacts like that to NAC.   Please begin on the supplements, adding the abx "as tolerated".  Tolerated is a challenge and a stretch for most of us - as are some of the supplements.  But our bodies accept the challenges, then get used to them, and finally welcome and understand that this is a great undertaking.  For most of us, it is not an easy thing, but our road to better lives that for some had become almost unbearable.

Rica

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Thank you MMHHPP.  I appreciate the breakdowns.

 

The first night on nac I took Oregano oil.. it always makes me have a severe die off like set of symptoms so attributed it to that.  Oregano Oil and Olive Leaf extract seem to really effect whatever is going on with me.  Especially if I pair them with proteolytics.  I had read that proteolytics helped dissolve the membranes on encysted parasites like T.gondii.  Does anyone know their action on Cpn?  I do not see them on the supplement list.  Collodial seems helpful for me when things are acute, but I think Im just drinking money the rest of the time. ;)

 

Second night I ran a fever of 99.4 , had total body aches, horrible headache.. shivers/trembles and weakness..So, I should stay with 1200 today and forge through this reaction?

MacKintosh..  add to maybe finding the answer that doctors have been telling you you are crazy for even thinking existed.  They can find the damage, but never a reason why.  Before, when I felt like t was just me, I was looking for an answer but it didnt feel as urgent . Knowing my husband may be effected ratchets it up a whole other level. Add to that the constant sickness and trying to just live life.  Im so tired of being my own detective.  Sorry for the sob story.

Ive been reading and am a little calmer now. Ill keep reading. 

Breathe, right?

 

 

 

 

Will send you a pm about the 'breathing' part.   But, the part about being crazy?  Oh, yes, most people here on the site can empathize on that one. 

There's nothing quite like sitting in the office of a big-name infectious disease doctor and having her phone your neuro - in FRONT of you - and having the two of them mock you and have a good laugh about how 'sure, everyone will be treating MS with antibiotics ten years from now, hahahahahahaha'.  

But, I'm having the last laugh.  And, so will you.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

I think I realize how I also have explained this poorly in my limited knowledge of science.  Maybe this explanation will be more helpful.

 

In the blood you see all these white specks floating around ..of all varied sized particles.  I thought they were all the same things.. some seem to be very very small.. just barely visable on the darkfield, most are larger.  The very small ones move more and are like little specks you have to really look for.  I cannot take a picture of one.  Now I realize all those larger specks that seem to be disappearing or being "eaten" may be chylomicrons. Which if Im understanding correctly are fat http://cholesterol.about.com/od/lipoproteins/g/chylomicrons.htm  that are carried to the cells that they need.  It alarmed me because they live blood analysis lady said anything in the blood is bacteria.. but I can see now that if I do the test fasting there are many many less of those particles.  I now understand why my analysis that I see the bacteria particles being eaten by the cells is implausible.  but bear with me just so I can feel like Ive accurately described what is happening just incase this is of significance at all.

 

When I first lookat the slide the blood looks great.. RBCs round and moving around.. lots of different WBCs tho and every now and then I catch what I think are "burr cells" and these.  These look different then the "burr cells"  I think one of the photos above is actually a burr cell.  But as I check in as time goes on, I can locate more of the round body filled, not spiculated cells that look like the pics from Dr. Stratton's slide.  I elaborate just incase that makes more sense.

 

Anyway, Ill let this go now and just keep researching.  Its just so weird they look so much alike.  It would be so awesome to have some kind of way to see it, ya know?

I saw all sorts of things in my blood.  But a lot of round things, which he said some were bacteria and some worms/flukes (never did get the difference).  I suppose we all have some stuff thats being dealt with anyway.  But those things like sea mines do look like they could do with some help, to get rid.  I know someone who said his advisor  saw EB's on the red bld cells.  I didnt see any candida on your pics, which tends     to be larger and white. 

 

What i really meant was that if there is bacteria there, whichever bacteria it is, the weldon protocol has such a good way of txing all the stages, of any bacterial illness, that it could well be applied to a lot of bacteria.  Not that i know, just a guess.  Certainly Lyme needs the combined approach. 

 

Good to hear you are on the NAC - it does sound like a reaction.  Shame you didnt get the sniffles too.  Take it easy - no rush.  Hope to hear more.

 

Po

x

Female UK. High EBV, CMV. In winter 12/13 waslow Lyme and Cpn-tx'ed 6mths. Sept 13 -ve lyme, +ve erlichia, bart &Yersinia, starting tx for co-infections also aspergillus

There has been no mention of your husband in the latest rounds of this discussion.  Has he tried NAC? 

Rica

3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abx protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxy 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyl 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMS EDSS 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan  In for the duration.&am

Husband has a dry bronchial cough and looks like hell.  I hate to stress his system any more.  Will the nac help him?

 

The whole reason I bought the scope was Strongyloides stercoralis and I think I may have found that too.. that is my main hesitancy to the antibiotic program.  I think we have a coinfection with worms and the round of antibiotics they gave me (clindamaycin and flagyl)  made it hyperinfective.  It took me 1 yr and 80 lbs lost to dig out of that one.  Id like to treat the stronglyoides first as that seems to make sense...  but all I ever get on a stool test is Parasite present, taxonomy unknown.  I think these things spread my Cpn around too.  It says they can carry things all over your body.

 

I guess Im off to search and see what people here do for nematode coinfections...