MediTest
27 Apr 2018
Author
SS In Oregon
Title

Can a regular sauna help too or must it be infrared?

Body

And how do they also differ from a steam room?The one place i found that has infrared sauna the owner said not to use it because it can stimulate the immune system and mine is overactive as it is, that is the very problem.But until i start the cap i want to do something. I hate struggling so much day in and day out. So I wonder if i may at least benefit from a sauna or steam room at the local gym? I dont have membership and didnt want to buy it unless it really can help.Thank you!

Comments

I'm not sure why you have and overactive immune system if you have a Cpn infection. The infrared sauna is the one that Dr. Powell is using. Infrared has properties, like immune stimulation, in of itself useful to kill bacteria, as well as inducing an artificial fever-- especially important for those of us with low body temperature. You could get the artificial fever if you use regular sauna/steam, but not the important infrared effects. Do a pubmed search on infrared and infection and immune and you'll get a bunch of stuff. 

I would not recommend sauna addition to anyone with heat sensitivities: MS, rosacea, etc. 

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 150mg INH, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Tini daily (Continuous protocol)

Hi Jim. I dont know if I have cpn infection. I assume I do because I dont know where else to turn. I did not test positive for this. But I also heard that one must use a specific lab and that is not the one i used. I also was not positive on myoplasmas either. But I read somewhere here that it may not show up on blood tests. This is why I have put off doing the cap. I did it before only for a month. I want to make sure that it will help before I do it since it is not without side effects. I am very confused. No docs have wanted me to do it, MD's of course since thy dont know much and ND's too. Thanks for your response. 

 

31 year old woman in Portland, Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's since June 2006. Super dry painful eyes, dry cotton mouth, dry painful throat, dry nose, dry skin, dry hair etc...joint pain & digestive problems. Very miserable and in need of help.

31 year old woman in Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's, peripheral neuropathy & unexplained dizziness since 6/2006. On CAP since summer 2007 & Infrared TX. Doxy 2X a day daily 100mg each, Zith 250mg 3X a week, Flagyl every 3 weeks for 5 days &

Okay, there is no way to 'know for sure if it will work'.   But it sure does seem to work for virtually everybody here, though one or two are on the fence.   As far as 'not without side effects',  that varies from individual to individual, as our genetics and scope and location of cpn infection are all different.

While I understand you are panicky (weren't we all), you need to read some more here and you will find the symptoms that seem to describe cpn infection.  You will also find most of us were treated empirically, which is the fancy way of saying, 'on faith, because all evidence points to this being what we are sick with'.  You will also find we can direct you to doctors who will prescribe.

To paraphrase David Wheldon's comments, do a risk-analysis.  Can you really afford NOT to try it?  Only you can answer that question.   

 

 The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.  Mohandas Gandhi

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

THanks Mackintosh. I wish I had tested positive for the cpn or mycoplasma like Lee on here did, the only person I know of on here also with SS. But I will give it a try. I have no choice.  

31 year old woman in Portland, Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's since June 2006. Super dry painful eyes, dry cotton mouth, dry painful throat, dry nose, dry skin, dry hair etc...joint pain & digestive problems. Very miserable and in need of help.

31 year old woman in Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's, peripheral neuropathy & unexplained dizziness since 6/2006. On CAP since summer 2007 & Infrared TX. Doxy 2X a day daily 100mg each, Zith 250mg 3X a week, Flagyl every 3 weeks for 5 days &

Wait then, Jim, are you saying that those with CPN do not have overactive immune systems? I thought MS, RA, Lupus were all AI diseases caused by overactivity? So are you saying then that antibiotics are potentially useful for overactive immune system diseases but not true for the infrared? 

 

31 year old woman in Portland, Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's since June 2006. Super dry painful eyes, dry cotton mouth, dry painful throat, dry nose, dry skin, dry hair etc...joint pain & digestive problems. Very miserable and in need of help.

31 year old woman in Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's, peripheral neuropathy & unexplained dizziness since 6/2006. On CAP since summer 2007 & Infrared TX. Doxy 2X a day daily 100mg each, Zith 250mg 3X a week, Flagyl every 3 weeks for 5 days &

The medical field PRESUMES MS is what happens when your body basically starts attacking itself spontaneously and for no good reason.  Immune system gone wild, if you will.   Assuming you believe chlamydia pneumoniae bacteria is the cause of MS,  rheumatoid arthritis,  chronic fatigue, etc,  you realize your immune system is UNDERworking, or at least confused.  Cpn is a 'stealth' disease, hard to detect by testing and the bacteria actually hide within the cells, not on the outside. The immune system likely doesn't even recognize it as a threat at all, therefore doesn't fight against it. The antibiotic protocol will eradicate what your immune system doesn't even know is in there killing you.

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.  Mohandas Gandhi

The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi

To put it simply SS, the immune system is fighting an infection most of us did not realise was there which makes it appear that the immune system has gone mad... Doctor may think there is nothing to fight (no infection) but the immune system is still attacking the body, hence the medical profession's PRESUMPTION that the immune system is attacking the body.

From the ill person's point of view, there is also a misconception, that bugs and pathogens make us feel ill, but in fact it is the body's fight with the bugs that makes us feel ill. When we catch a cold, we get a sore throat, sneezes, runny nose, cough and maybe a temperature. The symptoms we call a cold are in fact caused by the immune system fighting the virus.

The problem with Cpn is that even the body has trouble locating it, unless there is a new onslaught or if the immune becomes more effective, or it is given a helping hand with antibiotics. Sometimes an apparently mad immune systems will cause someone to get ill or worsen their symptoms just after a new infection that might appear to be a cold to the sufferer...

I think to understand Cpn you have to think of the immune systems as doing its job, however in doing its job it may cause your illness to appear worse, because in the cleaning up process which is its job, it will cause more inflammation and death of cells in the area of infection.   Because Cpn is an infection which once in your body, speads through it via the blood vessels it can settle any where, so in your case in your mucous membranes, making it difficult for them to do their job of lubricating your skin.

I would say (but remember I'm just an ordinary person, not a doctor or scientist) that your immune systems is doing its job of fighting an infection that has invaded many parts of your body, but has done so over a number of years and without you realising it. 

Michele (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 . Daily Doxy, Azi MWF, Flagyl at 400mg for 7 days prior to 5 day pulses at 1200mg three weeks cycle. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMS Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxy, Azi MWF, metro pulse.

PS, if you do a site search on FIR sauna, you will find some instructions for making a simple device you can use in your bathroom which will cost a lot less than a membership to a club.

Michele (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 . Daily Doxy, Azi MWF, Flagyl at 400mg for 7 days prior to 5 day pulses at 1200mg three weeks cycle. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMS Wheldon CAP 16th March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxy, Azi MWF, metro pulse.

lee

Michele is exactly right. However in the case of sjogren's I don't think it is simply in the mucous membranes but in the cranial nerves. In my non medical opinion the bacteria has settled in those nerves making them not function which in turn creates dryness and mucous membrane irritation. For me it is much deeper than just the dryness.

sjogren's diagnosed 2/03, 200mg minocin daily, mwf zithromax, flagyl every 3 weeks.

200mg doxy daily, 500 zithromax mwf,flagyl 1000 m-fri.rifampin 2x daily,chloestryramine 2x daily

Michele's explanation is right on target. What I would add for you SS is that in Cpn related diseases the immune system can be underactive in some ways, and over active in others--- hence the arguments in the scientific field about the nature of the problem. It depends on which data you are looking at.

MS, and RA and Sjogren's for that matter, do indeed show autoimmune markers in the tissue. David Wheldon's site, and Marie's discussion in the handbook, show that in MS the autoimmune reaction is secondary to inflammation. If you believe that there is evidence for a bacterium causing the primary inflammation (also a type of immune response) then you don't suppress the immune system but kill the bacterium. The same could be argued for many autoimmune diseases. Of course, that doesn't mean that all autoimmune diseases have bacterial cause-- syllogistic logic.

So as Michele says, you do a risk analysis, measuring what the risks might be, they turn out to be relatively mild for most people, and what the costs are to have your diseases continue or worsen if untreated-- and in many of these the standard medical treatment is essentially no treatment or carries worse risks of it's own, so it's a no brainer. 

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 150mg INH, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Tini daily (Continuous protocol)

SS  I just want to re-iterate what's already been said.  It must be very confusing for you to be receiving information on this website that is contradictory to what your doctors have told you.  The problem is a difference of opinion about what causes (or accelerates) many chronic inflammatory illnesses.  The vast majority of mainstream doctors are positively stuck on the unproven theory of autoimmunity as THE cause for many problematic illnesses.  By "problematic," I mean they don't really know what causes them, and they don't really know any truly remedial treatments.  That puts these docs in a very precarious position, so they use what the FDA approves as "standard of care" treatments.  That's understandable, since they are accountable to other parties, and for the most part, are not in the business of research.  They treat our symptoms and prescrible rather risky drugs that might possibly slow disease progression for some of us some of the time.  That works out well enough for the doctors, but it's not the meaningful treatment that chronically ill people need or want.  Sadly, most of the ill settle for this state of afffairs.

Cpnhelpers, on the other hand, have rejected the notion that nothing truly remedial can be done for our illnesses.  Like you, we searched and investigated other possibilities and found cpnhelp.org.  The CAP, the CAP doctors, and those who have chosen the CAP stand in opposition to the mainstream majority.  We believe in pathogens as a cause, and they don't.   That's why you could consult with experts and specialists who offer very different guidance from the guidance we receive from our doctors.  The reigning experts have invested years and their reputations in the status quo, and they are, for the most part, disinclined to "change horses in midstream."  Until there is a huge shift in treatment standards, which could take decades, that will remain true.  While some may consider us a fringe element, we consider ourselves as simply reaping the reward of refusing to accept the unacceptable.

I'm putting my own spin on this because you seem to be looking and hoping for a consensus amongst us and the "traditionals."  It's just not going to happen.  That's why we have urged you to find a doctor who sees things as we see them.  There is very little both camps agree on, so don't waste your time trying to reconcile the two philosophies.  Ultimately, you will have to do the risk/benefit analysis Jim mentioned and decide to go one way or the other.  Best wishes,

cypriane~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMS).  CAP since August 06, antivirals, heavy metals chelation, LDN, Metanx, Lunesta, GF/CF diet, Lauricidin, oral IgG/lactoferrin/IGF-1 booster, astaxanthin, gamma oryzanol.

Joyce~caregiver-advocate in Dallas for Steve J (SPMS).  CAP since August 06, Cpn, Mpn, B. burgdorferi, systemic candidiasis, EBV, CMV & other herpes family viral infections, elevated heavy metals, gluten+casein sensitivity.