Buhner protocol experiences and tweaks

As I mentioned in a blog entry tonight, I have been testing the Buhner herbal protocol and I believe it is working. I feel like I am on flagyl.

I am interested in what others are experiencing from it? Are you strongly herxing? If so, have you found any adjustments that help?

I am herxing as bad as I ever did on flagyl, mostly in the form of feeling like I am going out of my mind, unable to concentrate, muscles that burn with the slightest exertion and feeling bad if I do anything but lay down or sit. 

I have been trying cat's claw at 1g 3x per day (also part of the co-infection and Lyme protocol that I am testing), increased chlorella (5g or so per day) and 200 mg of ibuprofen every 6 hours and it seems to be helping. 

I am researching to see if I should adjust the herbs. My prime suspects to possibly lower are andrographis, houttuynia, bidens or Japenese knotweed (mostly for co-infections).

lleach - I've read the books but never tried the herbs, so can't help at all - but there is a lot of expertise in Facebook groups such as 'Buhner healing lyme and co-infections' so it might be worth trying there. 

Neuro symptoms & many health problems from 1989. NAC+all supps(04/11) CAP(05/11)

Hi ileach,

I did Buhner´s Protocol for cpn for six months, after following Wheldon´s protocol for years and I eliminated the infection.

Did you read the protocol I wrote here?

Because  the herbs you mentioned are different from Buhners protocol for cpn.

sphinx

 Wheldon CAP May 2008,   52  Tini pulses - stopped Nov.2013- Buhner´s protocol Dec. 2013 till  June 2014 - cpn free Oct. 2014

Yes, @sphinx. I saw your post and that is encouraging. 

Did you herx very much with the herbs? How long did it take you to feel like you cleared the CPn?

Started CAP for Cpn on 11/14/10 - Per my doctor, paused Abx 5/18/13 - NAC, T3, St Johns Wort, B-complex, Vit C, Vit D3 (8,000/day), Vit E, Astragalus, Chlorella, Chelation with Alpha Lipoic Acid. Started Buhner protocal (2nd edition) on 8/30/16.

No,I didn´t herx anymore with Buhner´s herbs . I already  felt good with Wheldon´s treatment, but cpn was still there and I was scared.

I got my immune system tested several times and it was weak ,I had a TH1/Th2 shift.Therefore it is difficult to eradicate any infection.

With Buhners treatment my immune system got better and better ,till it  was active again.

I did his protol for six months , till everything was fine, no cpn and a strong immune system.

And everything isstill  fine, since 2 years.

sphinx

 Wheldon CAP May 2008,   52  Tini pulses - stopped Nov.2013- Buhner´s protocol Dec. 2013 till  June 2014 - cpn free Oct. 2014

Hi Sphinx,

I know its been a while since you posted, hope you're still on this forum. I'm wondering if you can send me the Buhner protocol you did, I can't seem to find it, and how you are going now?

I have completed the Wheldon protocol, but I'm sure I'm not rid of CPN. 

Thanks

Sooooo lucky!

@boadicea, thanks for mentioning that. I am part of the FB group. I wish there were more discussion of chlamydia. Maybe I should post something there.

Started CAP for Cpn on 11/14/10 - Per my doctor, paused Abx 5/18/13 - NAC, T3, St Johns Wort, B-complex, Vit C, Vit D3 (8,000/day), Vit E, Astragalus, Chlorella, Chelation with Alpha Lipoic Acid. Started Buhner protocal (2nd edition) on 8/30/16.

Can you post a link to the facebook group?

Treating PPMS with Azithromycin 250 mg every other day, Doxy 100 mg BiD, Coconut oil 4 times daily,  five flagyl pulses. Been sick since June 2009. Having good success and very few symptoms.

I am assuming this is okay to post here. If not, I apologize.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1441091676154216/

It's a very Lyme-centric group but their are some CPn people there. It's been educational for me to follow the Lyme posts.

Started CAP for Cpn on 11/14/10 - Per my doctor, paused Abx 5/18/13 - NAC, T3, St Johns Wort, B-complex, Vit C, Vit D3 (8,000/day), Vit E, Astragalus, Chlorella, Chelation with Alpha Lipoic Acid. Started Buhner protocal (2nd edition) on 8/30/16.

Thank you

Treating PPMS with Azithromycin 250 mg every other day, Doxy 100 mg BiD, Coconut oil 4 times daily,  five flagyl pulses. Been sick since June 2009. Having good success and very few symptoms.

@lleach

what exactly are you taking in the 2nd editon of buhner cpn hebal protocol? Ie what form of berberine are you taking, how much and how often each day, same question for c.skullcap. would you mind listing here or not can you messge me.

Me, personally I am taking:

1 nature's way oregon grape root  capsule  3 times/day

1 dragon herbs scute/coptis/phellondron capsule  3 times/day

1 dragon herbs chinese skullcap 3 times day

( note: I am not sure how strong or well absorbed these c.skullcap or oregon grape root are and may switch to another type of berberine ie root and make a decoction as I understand berberine is not very water soluble and I cannot tolerate alcohol so cant take the tincture alcohol form. ditto c.skullcap, what type of these are you using/finding effective?)

salvia 500mg 3 times day

ashwaaganda 500mg am and pm

2400mg cordyceps some days but not all, as tolerated

andrographis 400mg once/day, sometimes twice day

bidens pilosa 30 drops once/day.

vitamin a and e

I may add lutimax later on, and NAC.

I appear to have similar symptoms to tinidazole pulse, but not as severe: I have weakness, need for glucose tablets, coppery darker urine, but no fast pulse and insomnia like I had after tini pulses. I take either activated charcoal or questran 2-3 times day, it does not sort out these symptoms but I am worse if I do not take them.

I am taking goldenseal for berberine. I was taking 2 droppers 6x per day but I have cut back to 1 dropper 6x per day. The Chinese skullcap I am taking 6x per day, 2 droppers. I am using the alcohol tinctures from Elk Mountain Herbs in Wyoming. If you can't tolerate alcohol, Buhner would recommend taking the powder in capsules rather than glycerites. He said that stomach acid is the best extractor there is. 

I am taking tintures for everything except cat's claw and eleuthero (both part of the Lyme & co-infection protocols).

I am intrigued that you have tinidazole-like symptoms because that's what I have. I would definitely add NAC as you can tolerate it. 

For the coppery darker urine, glucose (Smarties) might help. That's what I use on days when I am really dragging.

Started CAP for Cpn on 11/14/10 - Per my doctor, paused Abx 5/18/13 - NAC, T3, St Johns Wort, B-complex, Vit C, Vit D3 (8,000/day), Vit E, Astragalus, Chlorella, Chelation with Alpha Lipoic Acid. Started Buhner protocal (2nd edition) on 8/30/16.

What strength are the tinctures that you take ?  I dont suppose that tinctures are standardised to a particular strength.

I am taking 1:2  strength....50% alcohol.  Is that "usual" ?

Following this discussion

DAILY:  NAC 2400MG , DHEA sublingual , vit D3 , multi vits,./ Three times  a week: B12 injections (Hydroxycobalamin). Deer antler./  Once every few months methyl B12 Methyl injections

Usually during a herx I get dark urine

I always thought it was dieoff leaving the body

DAILY:  NAC 2400MG , DHEA sublingual , vit D3 , multi vits,./ Three times  a week: B12 injections (Hydroxycobalamin). Deer antler./  Once every few months methyl B12 Methyl injections

It's porphyria

Started CAP for Cpn on 11/14/10 - Per my doctor, paused Abx 5/18/13 - NAC, T3, St Johns Wort, B-complex, Vit C, Vit D3 (8,000/day), Vit E, Astragalus, Chlorella, Chelation with Alpha Lipoic Acid. Started Buhner protocal (2nd edition) on 8/30/16.

I cannot be sure if it is porphria or not at this stage, I hope so of course, but it could also be a toxic overload/liver overload type thing caused by the herb themselves maybe,so can't be sure.

Only time will tell, and I will post in future if it does help rid me of cpn. Still it is encouraging that you are having reactions to this new buhner protocol also.

In meanwhile I am hedging my bets abit and trying to add some of the herbs from the original buhner protocol submitted by sphinx so will add a crypto/sida acuta/alchornea glycerite combo to the mix. I did try lion's maine but I couldn't tolerate the insomnia and increased pulse side effect I got from it, although this may have been a porphyria response, as one other on here mentioned that they found the lion's maine as hard er harder than any flagyl pulse(Darren possible?)

What I can say is that I tried lutimax shortly after recovering from a tinidazole pulse induced porphria,  in the past,  and that gave me instant porphyria, so I will put that to one side for moment and re-introduce it when able a few months later on, as this lot is enough to be getting on with right now.

Hi there... just picked up on this discussion...

when I started a version of this protocol I remember weird and new symptoms happening.. even some of the old issues I had when taking other supplments and herbs got worst but soon everything got a lot better....

the one one thing I would say is that we are not all built the same and our bodies react differently to things and dark urine maybe a sign that the kidneys are under pressure.... I would suggest getting a simple blood test done to test the GLF function of your kidneys.... anything under 60 essh is trouble and a sign of kidney damage..... you only have two kidneys so treat them well...

regards

D

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

@ lleach

That is alot of chinese skullcap, to take, maybe if you want to cut back on anything  I would try cutting back on that and see. Buhner says in book c.skullcap  is the strongest of the herbs by far I think he says. I tried making a c.skullcap decoction for couple weeks and it did give me more porphyric like symptoms, so I 've cut back but will try again soon.

If that doesn't help try cutting back on bidens maybe, as that strangely does make my urine darker As for andrographis I have been taking that ever since I got lyme tick bite with rash 18 months ago and have had no problems with that.

Shame I can't take cat's claw as I felt good on that but got ankle tendonitis 2 weeks in and had to stop, still got the tendonitis a year on!

I am having to take glucoes tablest quite a bit, which I don't like to do but have no choice a lot of the time.

Other symptom I forgot to mention I am getting same as on tini pulse is old injuries I have from many years ago are giving me a lot of pain, comes and goes.

I have been getting dark urine with more than the Buhner Protocol

When I use a theraputic dose of Methyl B12 it happenes

When I am doing a flagyl pulse it happens

About a day after the worst symptomsof herx

I would need to investigate porphyria a little more to determine if this is causing dark urine

DAILY:  NAC 2400MG , DHEA sublingual , vit D3 , multi vits,./ Three times  a week: B12 injections (Hydroxycobalamin). Deer antler./  Once every few months methyl B12 Methyl injections

I experience kidney pain with every herx

My understanding is my body detoxes via the kidneys

I drink a lot of fluids to keep them flushing and I use coffee retension enemas to take the load off them

Somethimes I just have to take a break from the protocol to give my kidneys a rest

DAILY:  NAC 2400MG , DHEA sublingual , vit D3 , multi vits,./ Three times  a week: B12 injections (Hydroxycobalamin). Deer antler./  Once every few months methyl B12 Methyl injections

Your understanding and what's actually happening could be two different things....

i am only saying from experience that when taking these or any herb you really need to be very careful of your kidneys.... a lot of people look only at the liver.....

that simple GLF blood test will answer if your kidneys are getting damaged.

regards

d

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...

when I took the prescibed dose of flagyl and even less this happened 

I consider it part of the filtering out process and take steps to support my kidneys

The more the infection subsides the less discomfort I have

I believe it is part of the detox process because when i support the kidneys via coffee retension enemas the kidney discomfort reduces significantly

DAILY:  NAC 2400MG , DHEA sublingual , vit D3 , multi vits,./ Three times  a week: B12 injections (Hydroxycobalamin). Deer antler./  Once every few months methyl B12 Methyl injections

Just checking in on this thread. Started Buhner's herbs in August and had a bad headache after one week. Started with just half a dropper full of the tinctures and about 400 mg of Japanese Knotweed, cordyceps, salvia, astragalus, licorice and others.

Thought I would ramp up to 1/2 teaspoon for a week of the tinctures and had some nasty intestinal problems. Went back down after stopping for a week.

My TGF beta 1 was recently tested and is very high. This is usually a marker for mold exposure. Inflammatory marker for biotoxin. Could be mold I ran into but could also be Cpn toxins. Along with this lots of joint pain.

i talked about Buhner's protocol with my doc and he is going to read the book. Most of what these herbs do according to Buhner is sabotage Cpn from being able to live in our cells. Sounds like a plan.

Raven

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

The dosages are hard to figure out. Tinctures don't list how many milligrams on their bottles. Just how many drops to take. The tablets I take like resveratrol (Japanese Knotweed) from Source Naturals is 400 mg. Also how many times a day you take them. I was doing twice a day. Hopefully after my doc reads the book, he can figure out some dosages that make sense.

Raven

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

The dosages are hard to figure out. Tinctures don't list how many milligrams on their bottles. Just how many drops to take. The tablets I take like resveratrol (Japanese Knotweed) from Source Naturals is 400 mg. Also how many times a day you take them. I was doing twice a day. Hopefully after my doc reads the book, he can figure out some dosages that make sense.

Raven

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

Tinctures are what they are... they are processed in a liquid, usually alcohol and the alcohol and process extracts the componants from the plant that is been distilled. Hard to set a standard but there is an average taken.... There are alot of variabiles that are present, quality of plant / alcohol and length of time distilling etc etc etc..... 

Regards

D

The Greatest Risk of all is Not taking the Risk...