MediTest
27 Apr 2018
Author
Louise
Title

Bromelain as temporary substitute for Flagyl or Tinactin

Body

I've been looking through this site Since June 24, 2007 and as a result started NAC 1200 mgs/day several days after beginning doxycycline 400 mg per day (200mg with breakfast and supper) for Cpn.  I have now been on this combination for 10 weeks.  They first two weeks were difficult and l was down more than up however since then I have reduced brain fog, and improving energy and some ability to follow through on tasks that had overwhelmed me and my short term memory has begun to improve and I am making some headway in picking up the details of day to day life.  My question here is  since I

Comments

Louise are you sure  bromelain can be a substitute for flagyl?   As far as I know it's an enzyme taken for it's blood thinning effect as that  enhances the effect of the  antibiotics but I'm not sure it is bactericidal. 

You might find it useful while you wait to see your doctor but I think it's one of those things where you would have to work out your own best dose.  There's a natural treatment for lyme borreliosis, Dr Cowdens Protocol,  that uses bromelain at a dose of 500mg x 6 capsules taken twice a day so obviously you can take quite large amounts but it's probably best to start low and see how it affects you.  Some people might need to be careful with such an enzyme, depending on what other drugs they're taking.

Elinor ..... from England  on CAP, doxy/roxi/tini  for ME/CFS/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpn and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Elinor ..... from England  on CAP, doxy/roxi/tini  for ME/CFS/lyme borreliosis, positive Cpn and borrelia. Started Aug05, stopped Jan06, started again Sept 06.

Thank you Elinor,

You knudged my memory enough to remember where I picked up this idea.  And yes, it is in relation to the Cowden Protocol. I have an article regarding the Cowden Protocol in front of me now.    As I see from your siganature you also have Lyme Borreliosis and are Positive for CPn this is my currently know set of pathogens.  Thanks for the specifics.  I took two tablets (1Gm) several weeks ago and developed quite a backache the next morning (an old symtom) once it cleared several days later I have to say that I have been better since.

According to this write up that quotes Dr Cowden, he uses it to break up the fibring that covers the pathogens and hides them from the immune system. My understanding is that the cystic form of Bb covers itself with the hosts protein to hide from adverse conditions.

The thought is that  A proteolytic enzyme about 30 minutes before food with water only, a couple of times a day , enought of that enzyme gets absorbed and breaks down the fibring coating on the surface of the bug so that the immune system can find them and get rid of them.

 So not exactly a substitute but a substance that has an effect on the hidden (hybernating -waiting ) form of the bacteria that may make it avalable to for treatment.

Do you have a link to the actual protcol by any chance.This article is rather general tha I have.

Thanks for responding,

Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise- As you have co-infection with Borrelia I could imagine that a protein enzyme could effect the cystic forms. But in Cpn there is no cyst. I don't know enough about the cryptic form of Cpn to know what it would be affected by besides flagyl/tini, but remember this is an intracellular form. You'd have to get the enzyme concentration up pretty high to dissolve an intracellular membrane, and then might be also dissolving the host cell membrane! Bromelain could, I imagine at any rate, denature fibrin deposits which harbor bacteria (of many kinds) and thus allow your abx to reach bacteria otherwise sequestered. At least according to the theories related to hi coagulation rate and high fibrin in the blood.

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 300mg INH, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Tini daily (Taking a break from continuous protocol)

Thanks Jim I have been wondering how the  cryptic form of Cpn differs from the cystic form of Borrelia Burgdorferi (Bb) aka Lyme Disease. Both the cryptic and the cystic forms are periods of dormancy for these  respective endosymbiont bacterial host cell mitochondrial energy depleting life forms. From my limited understanding Bb is extra cellular when in it's cystic form. 

Are we sure that Cpn in the cryptic form is intracellular?  Is there a microbiologist in the house?  Are there any links to research studies published that you are aware of where I could browse and read about the nature of the cryptic form of Cpn.

 I located in my computer a seemingly more complete version of the Cowden Protocol for Bb. So I am thinking  that was my original reading regarding the use of Bormelain to uncloak cystic Bb.  So yes, Bromelain could be used for my Borrelia.  I tried two capsules several weeks ago and coincidence or not I went into old time low back pain, quite dramatic.  It cleared in several days, my low back has been better since which, from what I read from some Borrelia treatment discussions, is sometimes seen during treatment.  I stopped the Bromelain as well.  When I have the fortitude to try two capsules again I will let you know what happens and work it up a bit higher in dosage if possible slowly, knowing that it is  the Bb that is being addressed.

Just upped my NAC to 2.4 Gm today(two devided doses of 1.2 Gm ). Slept three hours this afternoon, had planned on a 15 minute cat nap!  Does anyone take the full 2.4 Gm as one dose?  If  I am going to sleep, the effect at night would be fine. Once I can stay awake all afternoon at the 2.4 Gm NAC dose I will consider once again the Bromelain for the Borrelia. 

 I am into my third month of Abx and NAC and have two more month (end of October before the first opening and transfer to a new physician (Fatigue Center Closed in Boston). So many practices that treat Lyme Disease are closing I feel fortunate to have been accepted at this practice that I know is using CAP for Lyme and is likely to be open to Weldon Protocol which seems to address both bacteria, that is my vision for my first appointment! 

In the meantime, sure wish there was a neutraceutical or herbal approach to cryptic Cpn phase as an adjunct or temporary substitution for those of us, that for one reason or another cannot get an prescription for flagyl or tinactin.

Thanks so much Jim for responding.  Your CFS story sound much like mine.  This site is truely a wealth of experience, strength and hope.   Thank you for reaching out to seekers in need.  I need to start a blog, a fine way to keep track of my personal treatment plan get feedback from you knowledgeable folks on this interactive website.

Louise

Maine, USA.    Dx CFS and Fibro 5/07, CPn 6/07, Bb 8/07.  High dose Doxycycline 400mg/day Rx for CPn, now NAC 2400mg/day added on my own as a result of reseach on this site. Considering Bromelain for Cystic form of Bb (available as well at Health food store).  Currently looking for more info on Neutraceutical and Herbal adjuncts as a temporary pulse antimycrobials for Cryptic CPn.         Reason - it will be late October before I can see new pysician and be able to possibly get a prescription for Flagyl or Tinactin. 

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Yes, the cryptic form is definitely intracellular. Cpn EB's are the spore-like infectious form and are extracellular-- NAC or amoxi reduce the bonds of their cell wall causing them to prematurely convert into RB's (the replicating form) while still extracellular and therefore can't get an energy supply and is exposed to the immune system.

EB's invade a host cell and convert to RB's which steal host cell ATP and replicate more EB's. If the RB inside the host cell is threatened by starvation (such as removing tryptophan which they do in lab studies) or by antibiotics they survive by converting to a non-replicating but low metabolism state called cryptic or persistent. Once the threat is gone they convert to RB and start replicating again. The strategy is taking agents that kill the EB's (NAC/amoxi), halt the replication (doxy/azith, etc) and that kill the anaerobic cryptic form (flagyl and tini).

It's really fortunate that for those with Borrelia this also goes after all the forms of that bacteria as well, although probably not the NAC. As far as we know only Cpn EB's are affected by NAC, hence the tendency to take reactions to NAC as confirming Cpn diagnosis, as it's otherwise a quite benign substance.

Oops. Almost forgot a reference link: http://www.chlamydiae.com/chp_index.asp

From our links page. Note that the cryptic form is also refered to as the "stationary" form and the "persistent" form at times. Also, take a look at the Mitchell, Stratton patents as they have a wealth of detail about the organism. From the above site speaking of how presence of persistent form is determined:

Dreses-Werringloer et al., 2001 compared the effect of long term azithromycin, rifampin or azithromycin plus rifampin therapy on C. trachomatis infection in cell culture. Prolonged treatment with azithromycin failed to eliminate the chlamydial infection leading to a state of persistent infection characterised by culture-negative, but viable, metabolically active chlamydiae, as demonstrated by the presence of short-lived rRNA transcripts, with aberrant inclusions and an altered steady-state level of chlamydial antigens with a predominance of chsp60 protein compared to the major outer membrane protein. Eventually treatment with azithromycin resulted in suppression of rRNA synthesis. Rifampin in contrast was highly active by in vitro susceptibility testing, but prolonged exposure lead to the emergence of resistance. In combination with azithromycin, no rifampin resistance emerged and the combined regime was more effective than azithromycin alone in that suppression of rRNA synthesis occurred earlier. Wolf & Malinverni 1999 also found that azithromycin plus rifampin was more effective than azithromycin alone at eradicating experimental C. pneumoniae infection of the mouse lung. http://www.chlamydiae.com/restricted/docs/labtests/treat_rifampicins.asp

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 300mg INH, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Tini daily (Taking a break from continuous protocol)

Louise, haven't you read and taken in anything in the handbook, or in David's site?Image removed...........Sarah   An Itinerary in Light and Shadow   Finished Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still slowly improving with no exacerbation since starting. EDSS was 7, now 2, hopefully will soon be less.

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Hi Sarah,

Yes I have read oh so much and taken in more than I would have ever thought possible three months ago before starting Doxy and NAC!  Since that time I have begun to think, reason, make decisions, take action, and most importantly stay awake and with the content when I now read. Such a blessing!

However, I have not absorbed it all and I would surely appreciate a link to what reference there that you believe that I missed relevant to my topic question so that I could review it. 

I have no offical MS Dx, however I did fall July 06 on the last two stairs of a full flight and only broke on e small bone thank God.  A repeat fall 6 months latter which was viewed from behind by an observer let me know that the foot postitioning noted before the fall would be considered suspect of neurological involvement. The second time I fell on the contractor in front of me.  No harm done.  In the back of my mind I began to question MS.

I do have a lab confirmed positive for Borrellia (Bb) and folks on this site have been helpful reminding me that it was in relationship to that Dx not my CPn Dx.

My CPn dx also lab confirmed.  My Chlamydia pneuoniae Differentatiation Antibody Panel ( IgG, IgM, IgA) demonstrated High IgG and IgA both  titers 1:512 indicative of Chronic infectin with CPn.

Personally I do not know how to access Flagyl or Tinactin without a Rx and need to wait two full months before I will be accepted in a new providers office.  Bromelain is used by Dr. Cowden's herbal protocol for Bb.  I was hoping that it was similar in action for CPn or that there is an herbal aproach that I could substitute until I can get an Rx for Flagyl or Tinactin.

Sarah, I see many reasons for your not have read this complete thread.  You are very busy and involved is so much.  I just read the full thread of your THISISME post.  I applaud your commitment to spreading the word so that folks have a choice in treatment.  However I do personally feel a bit chastised by your one line response to me.  And being that I am hard headed ..... I have just forgotten it.  I hope you have another a great day! 

Image removed.Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Louise there is an awful lot to take in isn't there? When I first came here I was totally overwhelmed by the amount of information and even more so by the layout of the site.

You asked about a microbiologist on the site and Sarah gave you a link to "David's site" above. David is Dr David Wheldon whose protocol many of us are following here and he is a microbiologist.

HTH, Carol

New Forest, UK and currently displaying a bad ping rate between brain cells. Progressive MSi dx 12/06. LDN 3/07; CAP 6/07: Whel

speedbird

> Personally I do not know how to access Flagyli or Tinactini without a Rx

Do a search on the site for "antibiotics" or "pharmacy".  You may have to plow through a lot of postings, but there are several URLs for pharmacies outside the United States that do not require a prescription.   These will be drugs made and sold in other countries so the packaging and brand name may be unfamiliar.  For example, one of the brand names of azithromycin in India is Zathrin, not the more familiar Zithromax.  

I am providing this to you to answer your question, not to recommend you do this.   The U.S. FDA doesn't inspect or ensure the quality or potency of drugs made and sold in other countries.   If you buy drugs over the internet from a seller in India, Thailand or Vanuatu you do so at your own risk.  If you take them, you will not be under medical supervision should something go wrong and you'll have to hope the doctors in the emergency room can figure out what's happened. 

Personally, if I only had to wait eight weeks to see a doctor who I thought would prescribe, I'd wait. 

CAP for M.S. since 8/2007. Currently: 200 mg Dox. Waiting to start Zith & Flagyl.

CAP for M.S. 8/2007 - 3/2009.  Twentieth pulse metronidazole + INH completed 3/12/2009.  Intermittent treatment thereafter until 11/20/2009.  

Hi Louise,

correct me if I'm wrong but you don't seem to be taking a macrolide antibiotic (most take azithromycin but some take roxithromycin) at the moment? That would be your first port of call before pulsing with tini/flagyl.

If you want to look at herbs then I suggest Buhner's book Healing Lyme. Many of the herbs he talks about in there are antichlamydial - e.g. cats claw, andrographis etc.

Hope that helps,

garcia.

____________________________________________________________

CFS since 2001. Infected CPn Jan 2006. Started CAP March 2007. Currently taking: Azith 500mg MWF, 200mg mino every day. 1 Pulse done.

Hunter: Don't think - experiment

Garcia,Thanks for sharing the book title for an herbal reference. 

You are correct but did you notice that I am on high dose Doxy 400 mg per day which may cover a bit temporarily for the missing macrolide, I can only guess about the rational for the single start, perhaps the prescribing Fibro and Fatigue DO thought that anymore would have been overload despite my postive response the the mitochondrial energy support supplements that were Rx as well as the sleep aid Rx and the T3 that I am continuing to take.  I am gearing up to submit my story and a blog to share my background and to log my progression.  First for myself and my family, then to help anyone who sees their story in mine as a reflection to add to the hope that I see as the key element of the success of this community. 

I have had energy deficiency since my first pregnancy and perhaps even before.  Lifestyle, nutitional healing and diet modification have been worked over those years of self diagnosis. I have been refined sugar free since the early 1970s and Wheat gluten free since the late 1980s.  Being part of the medical community let me know that most labs and assessements over the years have revealed an apparently normal healthy female in no apparent distress!  I gleened so much help from the nutritional approach and energy healing techniques I shifted professions went on to become a licensed professional complementary health care provider and still all the way I walked slghtly up hill as Jim has so aptly described it.  I recall a comment that was made in the late 1970s, during a physical, "Some folks are just more tired than others!"

I had learned over the years to compensate and look good, budget my energy expenses,  but had limited resources that only some of my family could see and needed to deal with. 

This past spring, I read an article on our MaineLymeDisease at yahoogroups.com website archives titled What is a Chronic Disease anyway?  It was entered anonymously and talks about the subtle advancing syptoms to inform partners and family. I speaks to the desparate need that folks have to be believed regarding their symptoms. I know I am preaching to the choir here and most of you certainly know all this.  Lyme definitely contributes to relationship failures so I take that to mean, so do most other chronic dibilitating situations, particularly if the are viewed as mental/emotional and willful in origin.

I am still learning how to modify my use of  this site, do the signature and say what is truely important. Bottom line is I am just so HAPPY that there are so many positive, knowledgable and well spoken folks here.  Getting chronically ill over time is very isolating and I realize how I crave contact with folks who are bright, inquisitive and speak their mind.   

I believe that the practice that I am awaiting entry into, scheduled on Oct 30, 2007, will address the missing macrolide part of the puzzle, the focus of that appointment is my confired Bb (Biorrelia) the practice was pointed out to me by LymeLiterate contacts, the blessing is that there is a broad overlap in the sensitivity of these organisms to the Rx regimens and I have heard that the practice is vert ammenable to patient input.   I was OK with my previous diagnosising practice, simply put that practice just last month closed.  My second choice for a practice was not available when I called, it too was soon closing it's doors.  I feel blessed to have been able to get into a practice that is only a 3 hour drive from my home.  My other option regarding the original FF Center is to follow treatment to Philadelphia that is where my chart was sent.  Definitely a hug distance, to far to drive.  

Thanks Garcia for your reply and useful information and comments.

Louise

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support
D W

"Are we sure that Cpn in the cryptic form is intracellular?"

It has to be, Louise; it is a modified form of the reticular body (RB), and can revert to being an RB when stress conditions subside. The reticular body cannot survive extracellularly. Chuck Stratton showed this very neatly by treating extracellular elementary bodies with penicillamine, which caused them to open up and to transform into RBs outside the cell. When they opened thus they perished. N-acetyl cysteine likely does the same thing. It's fascinating. I have a page on this.

D W - [Myalgia and hypertension (typically 155/95.) Began (2003) taking doxycycline and macrolide and later adding metronidazole. No medication now; just supplements and IR sauna. Morning BP typically 105/75]

D W - [Myalgia and hypertension (typically 155/95.) Began (2003) taking doxycycline and macrolide and later adding metronidazole. No medication now. Morning BP typically 110/75]

 The link to David's most excellent page on EB's and NAC is http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/NAC.html

You clever chap, you've been updating things while I wasn't looking! Time to dig into your website once again, David. Always lots to learn from you! 

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 300mg INH, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Tini daily (Taking a break from continuous protocol)

Jim - Thanks for highlighting David's new page on NAC!

David - BRAVO - Really interesting! Thanks for your research and for making the information available!

Daisy-Caregiver- Balo's Concentric Sclerosis. Began CAP 5/10/07. Doxy 300 mg, Mino 100 BID 9/1/07, AZI 250mg MWF, NAC 600 to 1200 mg, Flagyl Pulses, Novantrone, Prednisone and daily pound of supplements.

Daisy - Husband on CAP 5/07.  Husband died from Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Secondary to the Infusion of Novantrone.  Ie - the treatment with the conventional MS drugs killed him. Daisy on her own CAP 11/2012. 

I did a personal experiment last week. Read my signature, there is Borrelia, in my mix of SIBIs (Systemic Intracellular Bacterial Infections), those microcritters that have risen to a level of consuming more of my available energy than they are entitled to. I am wondering if there is a correct abbreviation to cover the group of these pathogens that are discussed on this site.  It would be helpful in discussion with the Borelia Community.  Currently, when I have talked at local groups I get the glassy eyes and few questions.

I am waiting of a new doctor to see me, and am holding off on second atibiotic and flagyl or Tinactin. Just a few more weeks now. I am up to speed on NACi and doxyi and at a plateau.

One week ago, I made the decision to try the Cowden Herbal Protocol approach to Borrelia.  If you sift through the beginning of this post, I brought up the subject about 6 weeks ago. 

I got some feedback that was helpful and was challenged enough and foggled enough at that point to know that at that point in time I had enough to detox and process from my treatment regemen.

So back to my rambling here. I took only one full dose of Bromelain recommended on the Cowden Herbal Protocol for Lyme Disease to address the  Borrelia Cystic Form.  

Borrelia goes into an anerobic phase, in some way similar, not exactly though, to C.Pn. in my understanding. My reasoning was that any critters reactivated would be inhibited by my faithful ingestion of Doxy.

My observation is that the experience seems somewhat similar to other folks descriptive accounts of a variation  Tinii/Metroniaziole/Flagyli- like pulse for the Bb part of my dx.

Effect of dose As Follows; first 24 hrs, not noticeable effect. Then almost precisely at 24 Hr mark I began to get access to both physical and mental energy. How refreshing, I was up and moving around and sorting through boxes and progressing into necessary life functions that have been on endless hold for much too long. I process and unpacked about 10 boxes of books and paper materials that have not seen the light of day in over 2.5 years! This joyous experience lasted approximately 36 hours. I slept well and awoke optomistic. Some what euphoric or maybe just normal joy of life (been so long since I have been there a bit hard to discern).

Then the downward spiral began after about 36 hours with a return to an increased level of body symptoms, aches in multiple locations, energy sink holes appeared, discouraged thinking, physical inertia, irritablity.

I am, it seems again on an upward turn. 

Again I say this is not a pulse for C.Pn. The intention of the Bromelain dose was address the Cystic form of Bb.  Once I am advanced on the Wheldon CAP protocol I see no reason to take Bromelain as Tini/Metroni Tinactini/ or Metroniazole/Flagyl will be available to me soon and has been documented effective in addressing the Cryptic formi of C.Pn. and the Cystic Form of Bb.

Thought this experience might interest a few folks.

Louise 

Louise, USA, Northern New England. CPn, Bb(Borrelia B., Lyme,) CFS.     Started CAP 6/24/07 Doxy400, NAC1200.  Currently 9/24/07, Doxy 200 mg, NAC 2400mg. 

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

 Louise- it would be interesting for one of us who does not have borrelia to try this and see what reactions ensue. I can speculate two other sources for reactions: one is that bromelain could have an anti-EB effect, another is that it exposes EB's sequestered by fibrin to NAC, and a third possibility is it's anti-candida effect in the gut by breaking down proteins in the cell membrane. There is always the possibility that it somehow has an anti-cryptic cpn effect too. Would be a great find if so.

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, Tini pulses.

Jim K, I realized that I had a window to do the emperical experiment. I only took one full dose.   And I could repeat it once after I work in my second antibiotic prior to starting the aizole drug in my treatment plan.   

I hesitate to to do this again just now as my doctor appointment is October 30 and I want to be able to be express myself well enough to get buy in for the Wheldon Protocol specifically. 

Can I send you the PDF file and the Word Doc that I have that are related to the Cystic Form of Lyme and the Cowden Herbal Protocol information for you to review?  Then you could search the topic some more. Maybe find out where Dr Cowden got his info etc.   The PDF file is a paper specifically about the cystic form of Bb.    There may be a way I can get these papers to you through the site, I just am a bit challenged about how navagate all the options here at CPNhelp.org

My understanding, which is not explicitly technical but, I have been told is that the Bb coat themselves with the hosts protein and are cloaked (unseen by the immune system) and the thinking is that similar to the cryptic form of C.Pn. going into cryptic form that this is a self protective attempt when they are threatened by treatment drugs.  I believe that it was presented at one of the ILADS annual events in the past several years.  

As I am sure you understand I am still somewhat challenged by detail recall. 

Let me know how to get the info to you.  You can personal mail me if that is best I will keep a lookout for your request. 

If my pulses are anything like those three good days I could get my life a bit more on track again.  It sure felt good, a glympse of returning function! Hope is powerful medicine.

Louise, USA, Northern New England. CPn, Bb(Borrelia B., Lyme,) CFS.     Started CAP 6/24/07 Doxy400, NAC1200.  Currently 9/24/07, Doxy 200 mg, NAC 2400 mg. 

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

 Actually I'm familiar with the theory, and also with the use of protein enzymes to disolve fibrin deposits which some believe sequester and protect certain pathogens from the immune system and from antibiotics, as well as enzyme use to kill candida. I've had reactions before to taking protein enzymes (including bromelain) but have always attributed these reactions to it's effect on candida. Just makes me curious.

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, Tini pulses.

Jim K, Are you referring to a System Candida infection or intesinal candida overgrowth?

The reaction that you are referring to is the type we associate with Tini or Flagyl?

I beleve that my titer for systemic Candida was among my negative results. 

I have limited refined and much simple sugars and alcohols for the past 35 years.  Because of the loss of energy that resulted when I consumed them.  I was tested about 30 years ago, but it did not indicate reactive hypoglycemia on the results, I felt out of it but the blood work was not low enough to qualfy.  C.Pn. it would seem may be a progressive infection?  I could of had it even then as I begin to think of my general symptoms and energy challenges.

I have developed a taste for plain Kefir a wonderful probiotic and plain yogurt. It is an aquired taste for tartness.   So to be able to take dextrose and glucose now (since NAC and Doxy)and feel better energetically and mentally rather than worse considering my the previous experiences of reactive fatigue and brain fog/brain stall in reaction to sugar, is very interesting experience to me.

I also wonder if the Cowden Herbal Protocol would have an anti-chlamydial effect the RB's as well as the cryptic form when I originally brought up this topic. 

I really know very little about the herbology of the substances in the Cowden protocol, there are some folks locally that are on this protocol for Borrelia.   Adding NAC, perhaps it might be another perspective to consider. 

For me I'm planning to stick with the Wheldon Protocol at this point. 

 

Louise, USA, Northern New England. CPn, Bb(Borrelia B., Lyme,) CFS.     Started CAP 6/24/07 Doxy400, NAC1200.  Currently 9/24/07, Doxy 200 mg, NAC 2400 mg. 

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support

Don't forget, though, that bromelain is also a potent anti-inflammatory..........Sarahhttp://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/bromelain-000289.htm   An Itinerary in Light and Shadow   Finished Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still slowly improving with no exacerbation since starting. EDSS was 7, now 2, less on a good day.

Completed Stratton/Wheldon regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years, three of which intermittent.   Still improving bit by bit and no relapses since finishing treatment.

Thank you Sarah for that link regarding Bromelain.  A well written source with plenty of reference for those needing deeper research.

Like most things a slice of Pineapple is one thing and  as a concentrated substance it is well to be fully informed of the full range of it's effect.

I am going to read the information completely, particulary before deciding on any repeated doses. 

Louise, USA, Northern New England. CPn, Bb(Borrelia B., Lyme,) CFS.     Started CAP 6/24/07 Doxy400, NAC1200.  Currently 9/24/07, Doxy 200 mg, NAC 2400 mg. 

  • CAP(TiniOnly): 06/07-02/09 for CFS
  • MethylationProtocolSupplements: Started08/08
  • Intermtnt CAP: 02/09-02/10
  • Full MethylProtocol & LDN 02/09
  • Off CAP: 02/10, cont LDN & MethlyProtocol support