Cpnhelp.org

I went to look this up on wikipedia and didn't find much more then information about the genus of trees called boswellia from which this herb/resin comes from.  I'm interested in reading information about it and whether any studies have been done to find out what contraindications it may have.  Given that it's not a medication, I know that there is probably not much to go on, but I'm still interested to read whatever there may be.

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all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, now 6 on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHi 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08

Accidental double post, please disregard

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all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, now 6 on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHi 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08

Hi Horses / John,

Please be careful.   I strongly suspect that Boswellia, a very powerful 5-LOX inhibitor, was largely responsible for the dramatic increase in what I now realize were symptoms of infection that I experienced just prior to finding CAPi.

I've been posting on the following thread what I believe are the likely reasons for this, namely that 5-LOX inhibitors like Boswellia seem to block Leukotriene B4 which seems to be very important for triggering our neutrophils to release the antimicrobial peptides (cathelicidins) as they should upon encountering bacterial, fungal or viral pathogens:

http://www.cpnhelp.org/cathelicidins_and_ltb4

I'm certainly no expert, but you may want to have your doctors read the above thread and then discuss it with them very carefully before you start taking boswellia or any other 5-LOX inhibitor.   Also see the above thread for a list of 5-LOX & Leukotriene B4 inhibitors that I have identified to date...

Take care...

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Treatment for Rosaceai

• CAPi:  01/06 - 07/07
• High-Dose Vit D3, NACi & FIRi Sauna Only:  07/07 - 11/08
• Intermittent CAP, High-Dose Vit D3:  11/08 - Present

Red           

Thanks for that information, tthat's the sort of thing that I wanted to know, wanted discussed before making any decision about it.  Frankly, your information also informed me that the curcumin I've been taking is also probably a bad idea.  I was taking one of the other inhibitors to reduce effux pump efficacy but only took it for the first year or so and stopped it also.  So, curcumin is off the supplement list for me now.

I wonder how much or if taking curcumin or any inhibitor might be slowing down progress of the CAPi in people.  Certainly, inflammationi sucks and it's desirable but I would rather get well then draw this out longer then it needs to be.

Also, very sorry about your brother.  I did read the information linked and I'm sorry to hear about things.  I have something similar in some respects.  My mother was diagnosed with COPD about 6 years ago.  I didn't know it at the time but I've read that Cpni is indicated in it.  I found out about 3 months after she was gone.

In any case, thank you for all the information on COX and 5-LOX inhibitors.  I think increasing the moppers is the way to go to control inflammation.  That or take Ibuprofen or Naproxen Sodium.  Not sure if the latter two would do the same as the herbal inhibitors though and maybe you can comment on that if you know, thanks.

 

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all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, now 6 on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHi 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08

Red. I just read your post on Boswelliaa. My Lyme doctor prescribed it for the anti inflammitory properties. I am just curious to why you were on it prior to CAPi and how your symptoms got worse. My inflammationi has put me out of commision at times and I certainly don't want to make anything go south at this point.

                   Bonnie
 

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started Wheldon capi 4/21/08 for Cpni, CMV, EBVi, CFSi. Currently on: all supplementsi,Doxy200, added Azith.250mgs M/W/F on 6/30/08. Naci up to 1200mgs.as tol.Vit.B12 injections daily, cholest. prn. Start Tinii. in Jan. if all goes well.

Interesting to learn about the effects on the immunei system from the 5 LOX inhibitors. I have been taking three on the list. Boswellia for a couple weeks, tumeric, part of recommended start supplements and milk thistle for years due to liver/gallbladder issues. I just now read a lot of the posts on Red's thread about the cathelicidins & LTB4 as well and was stunned. I certainly do not want to unknowingly allow the underlaying viruses I have had such as EBV and Zoster herpes to freely multiply not to mention the Cpni. But I can't allow inflammationi to get the upper hand. I need to rethink my strategy me thinks. Thanks so much all for contributing to this subject. So maybe just more moppers and ibuprofen is a smarter way to go ....    MM

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FM dx 2002. Started 2008: NACi 4/19 (2400 mg daily 7/21) Start list supplementsi + Iodoral 12.5 mg. daily: 6/19  FIRi sauna, 9/4 100 mg Minoi, 11/3 Azith - 12/1 MWF

Hi Bonnie,

Again, I'm no expert, but you may want to run the articles in the thread above by your Lyme doctor.   I don't believe many doctors (or researchers for that matter) are aware of that 5-LOX inhibitors and Leukotriene B4 blockers have been shown to cause increase pathogen burdens...

I give a pretty good account of my experience with Boswellia on my very first post (from Feb '06, when I was first starting CAPi):

http://www.cpnhelp.org/?q=cpn_rosacea_your_help_com

The upside to my experience with Boswellia, the worsening of symptoms, and then the eventual finding of the very first study linking 5-LOX inhibitors with increased pathogen burdens in rats, was that it made me start googling like crazy for all infectionsi that had been associated with rosacea.  I luckily found a short blurb on a study that at the time was still not published, but it linked Cpn with rosacea.    I then found this site and the rest is history...

Again, I hope this helps...

 

 

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Treatment for Rosaceai

• CAPi:  01/06 - 07/07
• High-Dose Vit D3, NACi & FIRi Sauna Only:  07/07 - 11/08
• Intermittent CAP, High-Dose Vit D3:  11/08 - Present

Red.. You are right about  faith in doctors. Although I am so grateful for my doctor testing me for cpni and reading the information on this web site for the correct treatment protocol ,this is a very tricky bug to battle.

I thank the people on this site who had used their research to help others.

One great outlook is my doctor does claim she is no expert on cpn and has sent all my records to Dr.Stratton. I have hope for my future for wellness and looking forward to  my appointment.

One extra question, what do most use for extreme inflammationi?

           Bonnie

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started Wheldon capi 4/21/08 for Cpni, CMV, EBVi, CFSi. Currently on: all supplementsi,Doxy200, added Azith.250mgs M/W/F on 6/30/08. Naci up to 1200mgs.as tol.Vit.B12 injections daily, cholest. prn. Start Tinii. in Jan. if all goes well.

Hi John,

I haven't really run across anything yet that convincingly suggest that NSAIDsi might cause increased pathogen burdens.   There are a few reports of NSAIDs (particularly ibuprofen, I believe) being linked with necrotizing soft tissue infectionsi, but apparently the jury is still out on this:

Severe necrotizing soft-tissue infections and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs

There are of course studies suggesting that some COX inhibitors may even have an anti-Cpni effect:

Selective cyclooxygenase inhibitors prevent the growth of Chlamydia pneumoniae in HL cells.

And there are studies that suggest NSAIDs may have activity against pathogens such as H. pylorii:

Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs have bacteriostatic and bactericidal activity against Helicobacter pylori.

So in a nutshell, I'd personally rather use NSAIDs to fight the inflammationi if I needed it during treatment than use 5-LOX inhibitors as I think research suggests that 5-LOX inhibitors might really lead to increased pathogen burdens.  

Still, anti-inflammatory drugs in general now make me very, very nervous from an infectious standpoint (since inflammation is really part of the immunei response to pathogens)...

 

Anyway, hope this helps.   

 

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Treatment for Rosaceai

• CAPi:  01/06 - 07/07
• High-Dose Vit D3, NACi & FIRi Sauna Only:  07/07 - 11/08
• Intermittent CAP, High-Dose Vit D3:  11/08 - Present

Red- thanks for bringing this up again in response to horses question. You are the only person who has raised any concern about the potential negative effect of these herbal anti-inflammatories in the context of ongoing infectious burden. I didn't realize that your researches about this is what lead you to Cpnhelp! I'm going to bookmark your other post to keep it in view. It might be something worth linking to the handbook appendices to keep it more readily accessible.

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CAPi for Cpni 11/04. Dx: 25yrs CFSi & FMSi. Currently: 150mg BID Roxithromycin, Doxycycline 100mg BID, Tinii 1000mg/day pulses; Vit D2000 units, T4 & T3

Red               

Many thanks for the work you've done to uncover this information.  I think that the work is an invaluable addition to the other information on the site.  Very much appreciated!  Thank you!

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all my best

John

RRMSi/EDSSi was 4.5, 5, now 6 on Wheldon Protocol (naci, doxycycline, azithromycin, metronidazolei) since 04/12/2006. Added Rifampin 2x150mg/daily 08/19/2007. Added INHi 300mg/daily 03/17/2008 stopped 05/08