Blood Pressure Experiences
Blood Pressure Experiences
One of the most remarkable (and objectively measurable) effects of CAPi seems to be the normalizing of blood-pressure. I thought it might be worth while having a forum on this subject, so that people can voice their findings.
My own experience is that of a rapid reversal of what had been worsening for 25 years. My blood pressure before starting treatment was typically 155 / 95 and rising. That's a pulse pressure of 60, which is wide for someone in their late fifties. The usual thoughts cross the mind: 'I'm healthy, I have a reasonable diet, I go cycling to work every day, I enjoy what I do.' And then you look towards the future. And then you think of colleagues who have had coronary problems, some much younger than you. For you the future course of events is that the systolic blood pressure will continue to rise, and the diastolic pressure will plateau and then slowly fall. This results in an ever-widening pulse-pressure which is known to precede strokes and coronary artery disease. Well, in my case, when I began taking antibioticsi, I noticed a regular fall in both systolic and diastolic blood pressure over the weeks (I had bought a little Seinex sphygmomanometer a year or two ago.) I measured my BP every other morning or so. I'm now on intermittent antibiotics and my BP runs along at a typical 115 / 75. It's also far more responsive to exercise and even emotions. If I'm really calm and the sunlight is streaming through the window, then it can go down to 95 / 65. It rises during exercise and then quickly falls. The pulse-rate echoes this. Before treatment it was typically 85; now it is typically 60 - 65. It recovers very quickly after exercise. All this strikes me as amazing, and, scattered through various threads, it seems that several others have had similar experiences. I recall Ron saying:
'I'd never have expected the BP to stabilize like this -- I think a CAP should be the treatment of choice for BP! If that doesn't eliminate the problem, then it would make sense to use the beta-blockers and other "non-homeostatic" treatments. I think I might have made up the term "non-homeostatic", but you know what I mean -- I see CAP as reducing blood pressure by restoring homeostasis, and beta-blockers, etc., as an attempt to perturb the homeostasis in a certain way. I am really looking forward (scientifically, at least) to getting a measurement of blood lipids and A1C, because those numbers went bad about the same time as the BP did.
I think that's right on. Removing the infection normalizes the situation; low but responsive BP results. Antihypertensive medications like beta-blockers are not really corrective, but are secondarily remedial - a little like letting air out of the tires so that the high load can get under the bridge. (Antibiotics remove the load.) And its good to know that your heart is moving blood for you alone, and not for you and your little pal.
I did a graph of my own BP over the years. It's so right on it looks cooked, but it's not. The usual caveats are there. http://www.cpnhelp.org/?q=blood_pressure_and_age_ef
It would be very interesting to gather others' experiences on this forum: looking through various threads I can see others finding similar results.
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It is such a thrill to be posting on this very important new topic! I had just brought it up when Dr R's dr called and left instructions to cut one of his 3 bp meds in half and said if his bp continues to fall or stays low, to STOP this one in 4 weeks! Everyone affected should make a note here - this is a vitally important subject, as David noted. And he made observations from personal and professional angles.
Rica
Ignorance is voluntary bad luck. Lauritz S. A true Viking
If you come to a fork in the road, take it. Yogi Berra
3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan In for the duration.
I know exactly what you mean -- I was excercising, eating relatively well, enjoyed my work and my family life, etc. and my BP just kept climbing.
Now, I don't take any BP medication at all. Here (I hope, first time I've tried this) is a graph.
Note that the second reading was while I was taking Caduet for BP. The readings for 3/06 and on are after begining the protocol.
If anyone wants to use a fairly crude Excel-based BP charter, it's over at http://www.cpnhelp.org/?q=bp_results_for_paron I'm still looking for a better one -- that one's not easy to use unless you're pretty Excel-savvy, in which case you don't need it.
Ron
On Stratton protocol for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Began rifampin trial 1/14/09
Currently: on intermittent
Please post blood pressure info! While trying to explain all of your results to a friend who needs to get off his blood pressure meds due to side-effects, I did a search of the site for 'blood pressure' and you can imagine the varied results I got!! It was like sifting through sand on the beach! If the answers are kept here, under this topic, anyone who wants to check the results (and the continuing progress of anyone with blood pressure changes) can come directly here. (And I can spend my free time on something else.)
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
MacKintosh, does the format I posted help you, or do you need something else?
Ron
On Stratton protocol for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Began rifampin trial 1/14/09
Currently: on intermittent
Everything helps, Ron. The idea is a good one: bringing all the blood pressure results here, to one spot. When dealing with heart specialists, the more info, the better. Dates, protocolsi and start and end numbers are great.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems. Mohandas Gandhi
my BP is nice and low and always has been, so it is not some "BP lowering side effect" of the abxi . If you read the potbelly syndrome then the cortisol connection to the bacteria is a key. It is the ridding of the germ that does this.
Now if only the researchers looking into CPn cardiac issues would stop treating people wiht 3 weeks of azithromycin then follow the people for a year the state with great assurance that abxi did not help reduce cardiac events, we'd all be better off as a society.
Marie
Tracking blood pressure
I've kept track of my own blood pressure due to it rising to a worrying level at the beginning of my 5th decade. I'm going to start on CAPi for my own ailments (peripheral neuropathy, chronic sinusitis, alopeciai, high blood pressurei and mild asthmai) so I'll see what happens and will use Ron's chart to record and post it when something worthwile shows up.
Michele from Sussex, UK
Michèle (UK) GFAi: Wheldon CAPi 1st May 2006. Daily Doxyi, Azi MWF, metroi pulse.
Now there are at least two (with KC) of us with LOW bp that is even lower on the protocol. Mine has always been about 112/ 62 - 70, but had the last few years gone up to as high as 120/70. Now it is 102/62. Looks like this is going to be a universal ....... whal do you call it?
Rica
Ignorance is voluntary bad luck. Lauritz S. A true Viking
If you come to a fork in the road, take it. Yogi Berra
3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan In for the duration.
Hello folks,
Likewise, my BP this morning was 115/70. It's amazing!!
Something new to report, hair growth! I've been balding on the crown of my head for the past few years. Now I have new hair growth and it seem that hair and nails grow much faster too.
Terry had been losing her hair. Each morning her hair brush would be full of hair but after beenig on the CAB she a stopped losing her hair.
On pulse 5 day 17/21 no new progress, all in time!!
Roy
Hi Roy
Was your doctor delighted and did he have any comments or remarks? There are probably more people with hypertensioni than MSi or CFSi caused by cpni. How long before the connection is made and can we as "responsible" abxers give a nudge? Maybe I suffer from a "save the world" complex as has been mentioned.
Rica
Ignorance is voluntary bad luck. Lauritz S. A true Viking
If you come to a fork in the road, take it. Yogi Berra
3/9 Symptoms returning. Began 5 abxi protocol 5/9 Rifampin 600, Amox 1000, Doxyi 200, MWF Azith 250, flagyli 1000 daily. Began Sept 04 PPMSi EDSSi 6.7 Now good days EDSS 1 Mind, like parachute, work only when open. Charlie Chan In for the duration.
Marie, that answers a question I had: If we set up a survey to gather BP data, should we include people who never had hypertensioni? As I understand your post, we should -- because it will show whether what's going on is BP normalization or BP reduction.
Of course, if it were BP reduction some people with low BP's would pass out when taking the ABXi -- and we'd have seen the pharmas flogging the stuff for hypertension. We've seen neither, ergo, it's BP normalization.
Still, if we have a survey, the people who've never had hypertension will be included -- thanks for the insightful post!
Ron
On Stratton protocol for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Began rifampin trial 1/14/09
Currently: on intermittent
Yes Ron that was my point. Glad you are going to do this for us! Blood pressure jumps around a little in normal people so single readings are of less interest than a trend also. My BP has been anywhere from 98/50 when quiet and drowsy to 118/ 64 when I was awake and busy and had had coffee. Typically though I am going to be under 110 for the top number and under 70 for the bottom.
I suggest using an average of several readings at least for each participant in your tabulation unless you mean to chart several for each person as you did for yourself.
My cholesterol is a nice 198 too and I eat whatever I darn please. It was not super high before and tended to be 210 or a high of 240 once a couple of years back. My doctor then said to me That's too high we ought to think about doing something and I looked at him and said Did you think I wanted to live to be 100 with MSi? At any rate that is down a bit it appears. Anyone else on the cholesterol? marie
Marie said this, above: "Now if only the researchers looking into CPni cardiac issues would stop treating people wiht 3 weeks of azithromycin then follow the people for a year the state with great assurance that abxi did not help reduce cardiac events, we'd all be better off as a society."
I am trying to find a paper, published about the time I strted treatment, which involved heart diseasei, a south London hospital and roxithromyin. I will post it as soon as I can locate it. Here is one dating back to 1997, though:Randomised trial of roxithromycin in non-Q-wave coronary syndromes: ROXIS Pilot Study. ROXIS Study Group.
http://www.avenues-of-sight.com/ROXIS.doc
And this one:
Effect of Treatment for Chlamydia pneumoniae and
Helicobacter pylori on Markers of Inflammationi and CardiacEvents in Patients With Acute Coronary Syndromes
South Thames Trial of Antibiotics in Myocardial Infarction and Unstable
Angina (STAMINA)
http://www.avenues-of-sight.com/stamina.pdf
Sarah
Hi Rica
The Doc's @ Vandy have not said anything and I haven't seen my PCP in a year or better. Yes we need to get word out to the masses.
Roy
Rica TheRica-The
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Great papers Sarah! Both show that cardiac events were decreased in abxi treated people. Sadly one was in '97.........1997!!!!! Nine years ago. Oh man medicine moves slowly. What a travesty. In the last nine years I bet a dozen more cardiac drugs have come out. I added both to the cardiac pages as we did not have them (!!)
Marie
I have worked up a Blood pressure survey that will let us enter blood pressure readings for analysis. It's just waiting on review before we "go live" with it. It uses the same survey system as Jim's 'pulse survey' from a month or two ago.
You will be able to enter as many readings as you wish, whenever you like -- but we need your cpnhelp username, so that we know which readings make up a set. Every time you "take the survey", you enter another BP data point into the table.
It requires a username, systolic pressure, diastolic pressure, and how many months before/after your first "pulse" of abxi the reading was taken. It would be nice if you would supply your age at the time of your first pulse, and your gender, since these can be such a big factor in BP, but they aren't required.
If you mess up, the system keeps track of the date and time you entered the data, so i'll be able to remove those results from the table -- just let me know.
When we're ready to go live, I'll post here and in a separate thread, so that we can discuss the survey itself -- make suggestions, observations, etc. -- without hijacking this thread
So, while we're reviewing the survey, please gather up your data to enter. I know my doctor will need a couple of weeks to send me my BP's for the last several months.
Ron
On Stratton protocol for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Began rifampin trial 1/14/09
Currently: on intermittent
golfbuddy, I know Dr. Paul Cheney has CFSi people drink a quart of 'gookinade' (plain water with 1/2 tsp. of salt and 1/2 tsp of 'No-salt', for the potassium) every morning to bring up their blood volume.
If that's off, and your capacitance vessels are stiff anyway, well, your bp goes all over the map -- might be high, might be low, might vary all over the place with posture. At least that's the way I understand it right now.
Ron
On Stratton protocol for CFS starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Began rifampin trial 1/14/09
Currently: on intermittent
Hello, all -- I've put a survey together to track the bp responses we've seen.
Each time you take the survey, you can enter one blood pressure reading. You can make as many responses as you wish. It would be great if everyone could at least enter three representative bp's from sometime before they did their first pulse of bactericide, and three from sometime after their first pulse.
The survey just asks for your cpnhelp username (or an 'alias', if you insist) and the blood pressure reading, and how many months before/after your first pulse it was taken.
If you get stuck, there's a forum about the survey at http://www.cpnhelp.org/?q=blood_pressure_survey . Here's a link to the survey itself (opens in a new window).
Ron
On Stratton protocol for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA).
Ron
On CAPi for CFSi starting 01/06 (NE Ohio, USA)
Began rifampin trial 1/14/09
Currently: on intermittent
I mesure BP 10 times 1 minute intervall during resting
After a number of abxi my BP changes has stabilezed its same
as when I was 25: 120/75 65. There is only 5 hg in difference between high/low
I did extensive tests to make sure of accuracy.I use a omron M4I and mesure with arm in relaxed position sitting up or in bed, resting and same conditions.
The BP + pulse behaves like an unstable control system. When the GP takes one mesurement were is that reading from? Top, middle or bottom of curve.
I see fast jumping changes, slow changes and occasionally almost no change = 120/75 65
This is some of the data. I have it all stored.
Almost calm
BP 04-11-20 7:12
04-11-20 7:10 117/72 70
04-11-20 7:09 117/75 65
04-11-20 7:08 119/74 64
04-11-20 7:07 113/81 72
04-11-20 7:06 123/74 66
04-11-20 7:05 122/76 68
04-11-20 7:04 120/75 66
04-11-20 7:03 116/73 66
04-11-20 7:02 119/75 65
04-11-20 7:01 119/74 65
Jumping
BP 04-12-31 11:45
04-12-31 11:50 118/79 79
04-12-31 11:49 123/76 76
04-12-31 11:48 131/80 76
04-12-31 11:47 124/79 78
04-12-31 11:46 129/81 72
04-12-31 11:45 142/83 81
04-12-31 11:44 135/79 81
04-12-31 11:43 123/83 74
04-12-31 11:42 130/83 76
04-12-31 11:41 135/86 73
BP 05-1-17 08:40
05-1-17 08:50 128/81 87
05-1-17 08:49 135/77 86
05-1-17 08:48 118/77 85
05-1-17 08:47 128/84 86
05-1-17 08:46 133/84 90
05-1-17 08:45 120/77 86
05-1-17 08:44 134/81 87
05-1-17 08:43 145/83 88
05-1-17 08:42 124/83 86
05-1-17 08:41 141/83 89
Slow change
BP 04-12-1 8:09
04-12-1 8:14 130/77 79
04-12-1 8:13 120/77 85
04-12-1 8:12 120/77 82
04-12-1 8:11 133/72 80
04-12-1 8:10 137/73 81
04-12-1 8:09 141/73 83
04-12-1 8:08 147/77 82
04-12-1 8:07 129/77 80
04-12-1 8:06 125/76 80
04-12-1 8:05 131/81 81
04-12-1 8:04 132/79 81
04-12-1 8:03 134/82 81
04-12-1 8:02 136/82 81
04-12-1 8:01 127/75 79
04-12-1 8:00 127/77 78
BP 04-12-3 7:26
04-12-3 7:30 116/72 82
04-12-3 7:29 112/75 82
04-12-3 7:28 114/81 85
04-12-3 7:27 118/78 80
04-12-3 7:26 112/77 80
04-12-3 7:25 119/75 77
04-12-3 7:24 124/79 79
04-12-3 7:23 122/78 79
04-12-3 7:22 121/78 77
04-12-3 7:21 131/76 76
/Per
-----
Chronic Neuroborrliose,abxi+E-vimin+selen+Q10+B12 antrophsofic medicin and therapy.
First I was afraid, I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live,Oh no, not I
I will survive
I will survive
Cpni leads to thrombocytes cloth.
This is Research from Sweden Hanna Kälvegren and resulted in half a page in a Swedish Morning news papper SvD 16 April 2007.
Common bacteria may result in heart attack.
Chlamydia pneumoniae Binds to Platelets and Triggers P-Selectin Expression and Aggregation Link
Our findings demonstrate a new concept of how C pneumoniae activates platelets and thereby may cause atherosclerosis and thrombotic vascular occlusion.
There are also other resarch(google hanna k) pointing at changed NO -levels.
This is a popular description. (my (pts) comment)
Changed balance of NO leads to disturbed breathing => Lack of oxygen in brain. There are 2 ways of breathing the controlled during awake and the autonom during sleep.
The controlled during awake is damage basically you forget to breath when the 'system' is busy. Your reflex to inhail air doesn't work.
For me this means I must be horizontal down(and deep relaxed) to rest/restore a comfortable chair is not the same. I believe most PWC are affected to a certain degree.
I have a friend that have had analyses done and studied this and with apparax and effortil she can controll the effect.
/Per
-----
Chronic Neuroborrliose,abxi+E-vimin+selen+Q10+B12 antrophsofic medicin and therapy.
First I was afraid, I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live,Oh no, not I
I will survive
I will survive
CPN:thrombocyte clots
Blood analysed with a darkfield microscope before and after using a magnetic field matt. After using magnetic field blood flows more freely, thrombocytes repells each other instead of forming clots. The blood also seem more vitale. I have some pictures of this but no video.
I use an electric magnetic field mat to loosen my stiff body. Its like a take your bed and walk each time.
I notice a reduced pain and headache within 5 minutes when I use it. 16 min, 1-3 times a day. The effeckt last for a variable time. Usually I use in the morning and that is sufficent to give me a good nigths sleep.
Read the previous on CPN causes thrombocyte clot
This may implicate that:
Thrombocyte clots should have an impact on blood pressure and how well the blood is utilized for transporting ?
How is the impact on the balance of blood gases ?
How does blood gases affect blood pressure ?
/Per
Has a brain damage that now and then plays tricks on what words I use.
Cloth is clots. I never know the misstakes when I write or speak. It's OK to give me hints when I make misstakes. Same things happens in swedish.
I will survive