MediTest
27 Apr 2018
Author
SS In Oregon
Title

Antibiotic doctor wants me to use infrared sauna instead of antibiotics....

Body

So I contacted a doctor that normally prescribes antibiotics for rheumatological diseases. He is in another state. He told me he has never treated Sjogrens. But he felt I should buy an infrared heat lamp, he said thye are only $30 at hardware stores and more expensive at medical supply stores. He said that doing it 3X a day 12-20 inches away for half an hour was what he recommended to kill the bugs. I am assuming I have bugs of course. I don't know for certain and didn't get a chance to ask but then again, he did say he had not worked with SS.

Comments

I was under the impression that the infrared saunas were used as a detox to get rid of bacterial die-off.  There have been quite a few posts over the last couple of months on RBF board regarding this.  I would suggest post on there and see what responses you get, or do a search of previous posts to read what was written.  I don't know much about them, but there is a lot of info on the 'net.  I don't know if I've heard of anyone using it IN PLACE of abx, though.

Good luck,

Goodwife

Hubby dx scleroderma Aug '06; Mino 200mg/day Nov '06; Cpn/Mpn Jan '06; NAC Feb '06; Azith Feb 14, '06

Hubby dx scleroderma Aug '06; Mino 200mg/day Nov '06; Cpn/Mpn Jan '06; NAC Feb '06; Azith Feb 14, '06

On the infra red- It clearly has an antibacterial effect, especially when combined with supplements. I'm using it in addition to the CAP. 
Dr. Powell has found it so effective for quite a few of his patients, especially those stalled in treatment on regular CAP, that he's been using it as first treatment with many as it is without the antibiotic side effect problems. He claims he's getting consistent and rapid improvements for many (1-2 months) figuring antibiotics can be added later if needed to get at deeper infection. 
I clearly get endotoxin reactions (chill sensations afterwards, body temp increases and then subnormal next morning from endotoxin temp suppression) using it, which means it's killing bugs. I don't know if it's sufficient by itself, as I don't have enough experience with it and am stil on CAP. 
At any rate, it's an inexpensive test run: I have four of these 250w brooder lamps clipped to hooks in a 3x4 closet with a stool. You don't need the fancy far-infrared, as regular near infrared may actually have more effect for this use. I've worked up to 20 minutes once a day. Gearing towards twice a day when I have time. At this point I see it as adjunct to my CAP, supporting detox via sweating and mobilizing body temp and immune. I've had chronically low body temp which clearly impedes the immune system and otherr enzyme systems.
I recognize that people consulting him for a CAP may be disappointed to hear he isn't jumping at antibiotics as first line treatment for a number of diseases. This may not be what you wish to try first, up to you.
With Sjogren's you have to make a judgement for yourself whether this kind of treatment, as it boosts the immune system too, will amplify autoimmune reaction. If, on the other hand, you believe the Sjogrens autoimmune is secondary to bacterial inflammation, then getting at the bacteria will lower symptoms. But you would have to be the guinea pig here.Jim

CAP for Chlamydia pneumonia since 11/04. 25yrs CFS & FMS- Currently: 150mg INH, 200 Doxycycline, 500mg MWF Azithromycin, 1000mg Flagyl daily (Continuous protocol)

I have a far infrared portable sauna, it was fairly inexpensive $200, you sit in it.  I bought it from www.saunawholesalers.com  It is supposed to help detoxing cells.  I have not really seen any results in my cellulite, lol.  It makes me warm & I am cold alot so that is good too.  I sit in it for 30 minutes 3-4 X's a week.  I haven't read any claims about it getting rid of illness, that is new to me.My best wishes to everyone going through this tiny bit of hell.

With Christ in Faith

Ruth 

CFIDS/ME, FMS, MCS, IBS, EBV, CMV, Cpn, H1, chronic insomnia, Chronic Lyme, HME, Babesia, Natural HRT-menopause, NAC 2.4 gm,Full CAP 6-2-07, all supplements+Iodorol, Inositol-depression, ultra Chitosan, L lysine Pulse#27 04-19-10 1gm Flagyl/day-5 days<

lee

I built a sauna myself. I can't imagine doing it 3 times a day. I did it everyday for 20min.l and on the fourth day I had to stop and put it away . the herx scared me too much with heart palpatations and other things. I would still continue to search. read this article the reactions sound very similar to a herx.

Scand J Rheumatol, 1999, 28(3), 157 - 9
Adverse drug reactions in Sjögren's syndrome . Frequent allergic reactions and a specific trimethoprim-associated systemic reaction; Antonen JA et al.; Trimethoprim-associated systemic reactions, including aseptic meningitis, have been reported to be very rare adverse drug reactions . Patients with Sjogren's syndrome have been overrepresented, but no epidemiological surveys of the reaction have been conducted . To study the overall frequency of adverse drug reactions, and especially trimethoprim-associated reactions, we interviewed 85 primary Sjogren's syndrome patients and compared the results with those of 45 similarly interviewed osteoarthritis patients . Antimicrobial allergy was more common among Sjogren's syndrome patients than in osteoarthritis patients (46% vs . 27%) . Eleven Sjogren's syndrome patients (13%), but no osteoarthritis patient, had experienced at least a partial, non-allergic systemic reaction with trimethoprim . Of them five (6%) had had a full-blown systemic reaction including both chills/fever and headache/backache and at least one of the following: malaise, vomiting, dizziness, confusion or meningeal irritation . Our findings confirm that allergic reactions to antimicrobials are frequent in Sjogren's syndrome . In addition to allergic reactions Sjogren's syndrome patients are prone to a specific trimethoprim-associated systemic reaction . This should be remembered when prescribing antimicrobials.

sjogren's diagnosed 2/03, 200mg minocin daily, mwf zithromax, flagyl every 3 weeks.

200mg doxy daily, 500 zithromax mwf,flagyl 1000 m-fri.rifampin 2x daily,chloestryramine 2x daily

I finally have a large cabinet style infrared sauna. It makes me sweat a lot more than the single infrared bulb did. Also sent away for Dr. Wilson's book---it's worth a read.See the web link above. He calls die off "healing reactions".
My observations on sauna + CAP:
First week I felt very tired after using the sauna for 30 minutes twice a day. Flagyl pulse with sauna packed a real punch---lots of die off reactions. Taking 5,000iu of D two hours before sauna caused a major die off effect.
After 3 weeks of using the sauna, I am feeling some major improvement in energy and lack of pain. Also an incredible feeling of lightness and well being---could it be Spring or just Spring + recovery?
No problem with heat tolerance at all---usually set it for 120F. Best to drink lots of water during and after sauna sessions.
If you can take the heat give it a try.
Raven
CAP since 8-05 for Cpn and Mycoplasma P. for MS and/or CFS

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

So Lee, the infrared made you more sick than the antibiotics? This is so confusing. If it makes someone to sick to stick with it then it won't help and if you are ill but not from these bugs, so you can tolerate it and stay with it BUT what is the point then if that is not the problem? My cpn tests came back but the MA won't give me the results because the doctor was not in today. Lame. She also said she did not know how to interpret them, something about equations and not knowing what they mean.Lee, honestly, I did not understand the rest of your response regarding adverse drug reactions. Was this in regards to antibiotic therapy? Infrared? You tested negative for various bacteria right? Because Stratton told me no point in taking antibiotics if I dont react to NAC or am positive on the tests. Next week I will bug the doctor about getting mycoplama blood test. Sigh....Raven, did you test positive for any of these bugs? it's so confusing when there are such opposing opinions.  One says it may work the other says it will make me worse by making the immune system work even harder, the last thing I need.

 

 

31 year old woman in Portland, Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's since June 2006. Super dry painful eyes, dry cotton mouth, dry painful throat, dry nose, dry skin, dry hair etc...joint pain & digestive problems. Very miserable and in need of help.

31 year old woman in Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's, peripheral neuropathy & unexplained dizziness since 6/2006. On CAP since summer 2007 & Infrared TX. Doxy 2X a day daily 100mg each, Zith 250mg 3X a week, Flagyl every 3 weeks for 5 days &

Hang in there, SS...the worst is the waiting....I know how you must hope for a positive test result to start getting the help you need !! And, it is quite possible that the physician's asst. wasn't able to give you the results because there is some result there that he would rather deal with you  directly about. Just because you do not show a positive on the Cpn test does not mean that you would not benefit from a CAP...I know people with Lyme who have been put on the Stratton protocol as well as many with mycoplasma co-infections. I think the main point is getting a doctor who is open to treating with a CAP and is willing to learn all he or she can about it.  Have you tried the NAC to see if you react??

Diana

Yes, SS, I tested positive for Cpn and Mycoplasma P. I'm a teacher and have very high exposure to pathogens in the classroom. I must have had a huge load of EBs because the first 6 months of NAC brought on copious thick mucus in my sinuses. Probably the same killing was happening in other body spaces. I also probably have lots of Cryptic stage buildup as I have more reaction to Flagyl than Azithromyacin. Tissue penetration seems to be my big stumbling block--getting at some deep seated Cryptic organisms. The sauna was a real surprize for me. I have heard of its use for detox but didn't realize it could be an adjunct Cpn killer. Actually, this was the best prescription I have ever had. I'm hoping to hammer those Cryptic beasts on all fronts.
As for low body temp, the sauna use has seemed to regulate my body temperature. I have been having regular readings around 98 F for the last few weeks. This is amazing---warm hands and feet are wonderful!!!

Raven
CAP since 8-05 for Cpn and Mycoplasma P. for MS and/or CFS

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath

Astrodiana, did you test positive for any tests? Nothing happens I dot think when I take NAC. When I take 2 I may get more nauseus but nothing else and I dont even know that for sure because I already have chronic dizziness and nausea that fluctuates but is always there, so it is hard to tell.

Raven, do you have MS or CFS or are you not sure? I thought MS was closer to SS than it is CFS? Is CFS characterized by overactive immune system too? If it is, and the infrared helped you maybe it can help my SS...

31 year old woman in Portland, Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's since June 2006. Super dry painful eyes, dry cotton mouth, dry painful throat, dry nose, dry skin, dry hair etc...joint pain & digestive problems. Very miserable and in need of help.

31 year old woman in Oregon. Living w/Sjogren's, peripheral neuropathy & unexplained dizziness since 6/2006. On CAP since summer 2007 & Infrared TX. Doxy 2X a day daily 100mg each, Zith 250mg 3X a week, Flagyl every 3 weeks for 5 days &

SS, in this community we tend to think that the diseases we suffer from are not due to an overactive immune system, but result from a chronic infection with Cpn and other 'henchmen' bugs. It is thought that the immune system is doing what it was designed to do, that is fight infection, kill bacteria and viruses, in doing so it makes us feel ill. What we have to do is give the immune system a helping hand rather than trying to quietening it down.

A simple example that might help you to understand what happens when you catch an infection: say you catch a cold...

What makes you feel rotten is not the virus itself but the battle that goes on between the immune systems and the virus. When the immune system goes on the attack it goes in all guns blazing and in the process will damage some of the cells the virus is close to, then all sorts of other symptoms start appearing all designed to get rid of the virus, sneezing, mucous, coughing, feverishness. The same kind of thing is likely to happen whether the infection is a virus or a bacterium.   In the case of MS it is the battle that leaves the scars that lead to disablement because the bacteria have settled in plaques located on the brain or the central nervous system.  and that is where the battles have taken place.

What we believe happens with Cpn is that the infection is not virulent like a cold virus but much more covert, stealthily insinuating itself in our bodies little by little causing us not much discomfort at first but eventually building up to leave us with disabling diseases. Some people will get a big Cpn event which will cause the immune system to react to the immediate threat in a similar way to which it might reaction to a cold virus, but often when the big threat has passed some of the Cpn bacteria will still be in your body because of its ability to become cryptic. Which means it lies is wait for conditions to get more favourable so that it starts to spread through the rest of your body.

Michele: Wheldon CAP1st May 2006 IBS, sinusitis, alopecia, asthma, peripheral neuropathy. 26th March 2007 continuous Flagyl at 400mg with 5 day pulses at 1200mg every three weeks. Spokesperson for Ella, RRMS Cap Started 16 March 2006

Michèle (UK) GFA: Wheldon CAP 1st May 2006. Daily Doxy, Azi MWF, metro pulse.

lee

SS.
Michele is right our bodies are doing what they are suppose to do. I had a horrible herx with the sauna. I have all those reaction with the antibiotics. I want my immune system bumped up. You need to read more and educate yourself. Normal doctors are not going to understand. You need to inform yourself. Did you check out the fibro and fatigue centers I sent you in oregan they test for everything you are concerned with. the article that I posted was to let you know that sjogren's patients (even though the authors did not know this) are herxing chills fever and the other symptoms are herx symptoms also 44% of sjogren's patients have a problem with penicillin. bactrim and penicillin are potent anti chlamydial agents according to the vanderbilt patent.sometimes when we are so sick it is hard to tell if we are reacting or not. keep reading and learning.

sjogren's diagnosed 2/03, 200mg minocin daily, mwf zithromax, flagyl every 3 weeks.

200mg doxy daily, 500 zithromax mwf,flagyl 1000 m-fri.rifampin 2x daily,chloestryramine 2x daily

SS, I was left in limbo regarding a diagnosis. My first neurologist thought the one spot on my MRI was inflammation---perhaps bleeding of the small vessels. When I went to an MS specialist, my spinal tap was negative, evoked visual potentials were slightly abnormal and he said the MRI was probably a sub acute eschemic attack (stroke). The second opinion MS specialist said she thought it might be MS. Going back to the first specialist--he emphatically denied that any MS was going on due to the MRI. Took me into another room and showed me other patients films with lots of spots and said "This is what an MS brain looks like". Well, now I know that Cpn causes vasculitis of the small vessels. So no matter what we call it---it's all Cpn! The amount of time and the difficulty of my treatment shows deep tissue penetration--even into my shin bones. So an affliction by any other name would be Cpn in any case. Don't get hung up on labels or names of conditions. Look at the big picture.
And I think the doc you talked to on the phone was my doctor. He's so right about the sauna and many other things.
Hang in there. Give up doubt and work on getting well!
Raven,
CAP since 8-05 for Cpn and Mycoplasma P. for MS and/or CFS

Feeling 98% well-going for 100. Very low test for Cpn. CAP since 8-05 for Cpn/Mycoplasma P.,Lyme, Bartonella, Mold exposure,NAC,BHRT, MethyB12 FIR Sauna. 1-18-11 begin new treatment plan with naturopath